Glad you stopped by to visit! Here we report R. Lalique news, auction results, upcoming event information, and our observations and opinions about the entire World of R. Lalique. If there is any topic you’d like to see covered, please drop us a note at info@rlalique.com. All R. Lalique enthusiasts, all admirers of Rene Lalique, and all interested R. Lalique collectors and observers are welcome to participate. Comments, additions, corrections, new information, and bug reports, are greatly appreciated!! Hope to see you hanging around the Blog!
Archive for the ‘R Lalique Ramblings’ Category
Welcome To The R. Lalique Blog
December 21st, 2024
Collaboration Abomination
November 15th, 2024
Our final and often satirical thoughts on collaboration claims being made-up for the 1st time in decades or even nearly a century after the supposed fact! On the debunking of the ridiculous claims of Lalique and Hatot (ATO) collaboration on the Normandie Clock and the later mass-marketed Hatot (ATO) knockoff version of that clock, we thought it would be timely to use the example of that false claim of Lalique’s collaboration to talk about evaluating some of the fact free, evidence free collaboration claims that are always intended to boost the value of the supposed collaboration item.
When self-proclaimed experts and specialists and whatever other hifalutin* titles they call themselves by use a term like “collaboration” it often means that they want to attribute something to someone on the basis of very thin evidence or no evidence at all. For the Normandie Clock and the later loose-copy of that clock, we are working with the NO EVIDENCE AT ALL scenario for the repeated claims by formerly respectable auction house sellers and their formerly respectable employees and contractors of René Lalique involvement with the clock. Those false claims relied on another false claim, that there was evidence in the ATO archives documenting the claim, but of course no one ever produced the supposed evidence, and Swatch, the holder of the ATO archives has confirmed directly to us that the claimed evidence does not exist in the archives. We found that out with just one email to Swatch (actual research!). Obviously the action houses and their various employees and contractors making the baseless claim of Lalique involvement with the clock, didn’t seem interested in doing any actual research. They were too busy cherry picking false favorable (to their phony blah-blah) claims by past auction house sellers of the clock and masquerading as if those false claims constituted “research” or “evidence”. It’s a trick that many formerly respectable auction houses and their formerly respectable employees and contractors have resorted to. They cherry pick favorable claims made in the past by other auction houses and claim that the former auction house claim is evidence, when in fact they have no idea if the original claimant had any evidence. As soon as a formerly respectable expert or auction house employee or contractor cites the claim of some other auction house as evidence (and does so without any evidence to back up the original claim) you should stop listening.
Also just stating the obvious, made-up collaborations always involve adding a name that would increase the value of whatever it is they want to sell you. They wouldn’t say Fenton Glass or Libby Glass or Consolidated Glass collaborated on anything with ATO because those names are of no help value wise. Say René Lalique and that helps.
So, how to flush out baseless claims of “collaboration”? First ask the person making the claim if they have any evidence that the claim is true and if they say yes, ask to see the source document about that claim. Saying “some other auction house said it” is not evidence.
A last step is to ask the person making the evidence free claims to detail the contributions of the collaborators! All artists have different styles and strengths that might cause them to want to collaborate, and identifying the contributions of two totally different artists should be easy for supposed experts. And it should be especially easy for someone that claims to know enough to know that there was collaboration in the first place!
As a guide for the future, let’s break down the Normandie clock and figure out who contributed what and see if we can make some sense out of the whole collaboration abomination! Here are the 5 clock components that we have to assign to somebody:
1. The round face/dial of the clock – the basic shape and style
2. The movement
3. The hands
4. The boat depiction on the face
5. The clunky waves base
1. The face/dial is easy: ATO had several clock models whose face is strikingly similar to the one on the Normandie clock and the later knockoff clock. ATO made minor alterations to an existing face as the basis for the one you see on Normandie clock.
2. The movement is also easy: ATO was in the clock business and the movement is theirs.
3. The clock hands again easy: ATO used these same hands on other models.
4. The boat depiction: We don’t know who created the line drawing of the boat on the clock face. But we have identified the source document that the line drawing was made from. The line drawing on the clock is basically an exact copy of the lines of a boat illustrated on the document. The document is not the work of René Lalique. It’s hard to imagine “collaborating” with René Lalique for the purpose of getting him to create a line drawing from someone else’s existing artwork. And it’s also hard to imagine he would agree to do it. And basically you wouldn’t need him for that line drawing, any art school kid could have done it and more importantly, ATO had plenty of employees that could do it as well. Obviously ATO did design lots of clocks, clock faces and clock cases. The Normandie Clock model was “not their first rodeo”**.
5. The clunky waves base: So we are left with the clunky waves base. That my friends would have to be the design of René Lalique for him to have had anything to do with the Normandie clock. If you believe it’s even possible that Lalique designed the waves base or even worse if you believe it’s true, we have a bridge to sell you, a bridge we recently discovered was a collaboration bridge between René Lalique, the Catholic Church, and the City of San Francisco! Yes, yes, evidence of the bridge collaboration was moved for safekeeping in 1906 after the the great earthquake, to the Mission San Francisco de Asís along with other important documents and they were later sent to the Vatican archives where all documents from the Mission were regularly transported. And the existence of those documents at the Vatican is confirmed by the great-great-great-great-great-great-etc.-grandson of one of the people whose 2nd cousin worked at the Mission repairing fence posts in the early 1900’s. And it is known that Lalique visited the United States in the early 1900’s and was himself a Catholic. So everything adds up! When you take possession of your new collaboration bridge, while there, you likely will see people getting ready to jump off your bridge after realizing the money they flushed away relying on false claims of formerly respectable auction houses and their formerly respectable employees and contractors saying René Lalique collaborated on the Normandie clock, or even worse on the less valuable later mass marketed knockoff. Assuming you yourself have not jumped off your new bridge, please contact us again as we also have a Tiffany-Lalique Collaboration Belt Buckle and a Cartier-Lalique Collaboration Brooch to sell you! Editor’s Note: There is ZERO evidence that the items at the 2 preceding links have anything to do with René Lalique. So in reality, they are “in the same boat”*** shall we say as the Normandie Clock!
Common Sense: Artists, glassmakers, clockmakers, etc. are in the business of making money. So when 2 famous figures collaborate, they publicize it at the time because they want to sell things; that’s what they do. Imagine if René Lalique and Léon Hatot (ATO) collaborated on the Normandie clock, and didn’t tell anyone at the time! Apparently these two guys kept the whole thing a secret, and it was just discovered in the modern era likely by an auction house specialist/expert that had one of the clocks coming up for auction! Kudos to whoever made-up the collaboration scam in the first place and count your lucky stars that Bunko**** squads are a thing of the past!
****Bunko Squads (also Bunco): From the Urban Dictionary: “The bunco squad is those policemen who investigate confidence swindles.” In use from the 40’s through the 60’s. Not usual among law enforcement today.”
Our Layman’s view comment: A confidence swindle is when someone gains your confidence/trust for the specific purpose of taking advantage of you in some way (typically financial) once they have your confidence/trust. So first they get your trust, then they get your money.
*Hifalutin: From Merriam-Webster.com: Pretentious, Pompous. Hifalutin can also be something “expressed in or marked by the use of language that is “elaborated or heightened by artificial or empty means”
**Not their first rodeo: This is an idiom***** in common use in the United States indicating the speaker or person/company referred to has prior experience in the subject being discussed (the subject can be good or bad for the speaker). The first widespread appearance of this phrase is thought to be from the movie Mommie Dearest in 1981 when Joan Crawford who was portraying Faye Dunaway says: “This ain’t my first time at the rodeo!” Think of a person being arrested and the police start reading them their rights and they interrupt and say ” I know my rights, this ain’t my first time at the rodeo!”
*****Idiom: According to the Cambridge Distionary, an Idiom is “a group of words in a fixed order that has a particular meaning that is different from the meanings of each word on its own”. Another more common idiom would be “I bit off more than I can chew” meaning that what you tried to do was too difficult for you.
***In the same boat: An Idiom that means in the same difficult condition or facing the same problem(s) as someone or something else: Think of a group of kids wanting to go hang-out at the mall: “None of us has a car, so we’re all in the same boat. Let’s start walking!”
As always, if anyone out there in Lalique land has any problem with anything we’ve said in this post, please let us know. We will promptly and cheerfully make any necessary corrections. How to comment? There are 2 options. You can leave your comment in the blog under this article. Commenting requires registration. Or the 2nd option is to email to info@rlalique.com with the subject Collaboration. Subject to review and approval, we likely would just paste your email into the comment section here. Though as always, we reserve the right to use or not use incoming emails and their contents in any way including publishing part or all of an email on the website.
Our final and often satirical thoughts on collaboration claims being made-up for the 1st time in decades or even nearly a century after the supposed fact! On the debunking of the ridiculous claims of Lalique and Hatot (ATO) collaboration on the Normandie Clock and the later mass-marketed Hatot (ATO) knockoff version of that clock, we thought it would be timely to use the example of that false claim of Lalique’s collaboration to talk about evaluating some of the fact free, evidence free collaboration claims that are always intended to boost the value of the supposed collaboration item.
When self-proclaimed experts and specialists and whatever other hifalutin* titles they call themselves by use a term like “collaboration” it often means that they want to attribute something to someone on the basis of very thin evidence or no evidence at all. For the Normandie Clock and the later loose-copy of that clock, we are working with the NO EVIDENCE AT ALL scenario for the repeated claims by formerly respectable auction house sellers and their formerly respectable employees and contractors of René Lalique involvement with the clock. Those false claims relied on another false claim, that there was evidence in the ATO archives documenting the claim, but of course no one ever produced the supposed evidence, and Swatch, the holder of the ATO archives has confirmed directly to us that the claimed evidence does not exist in the archives. We found that out with just one email to Swatch (actual research!). Obviously the action houses and their various employees and contractors making the baseless claim of Lalique involvement with the clock, didn’t seem interested in doing any actual research. They were too busy cherry picking false favorable (to their phony blah-blah) claims by past auction house sellers of the clock and masquerading as if those false claims constituted “research” or “evidence”. It’s a trick that many formerly respectable auction houses and their formerly respectable employees and contractors have resorted to. They cherry pick favorable claims made in the past by other auction houses and claim that the former auction house claim is evidence, when in fact they have no idea if the original claimant had any evidence. As soon as a formerly respectable expert or auction house employee or contractor cites the claim of some other auction house as evidence (and does so without any evidence to back up the original claim) you should stop listening.
Also just stating the obvious, made-up collaborations always involve adding a name that would increase the value of whatever it is they want to sell you. They wouldn’t say Fenton Glass or Libby Glass or Consolidated Glass collaborated on anything with ATO because those names are of no help value wise. Say René Lalique and that helps.
So, how to flush out baseless claims of “collaboration”? First ask the person making the claim if they have any evidence that the claim is true and if they say yes, ask to see the source document about that claim. Saying “some other auction house said it” is not evidence.
A last step is to ask the person making the evidence free claims to detail the contributions of the collaborators! All artists have different styles and strengths that might cause them to want to collaborate, and identifying the contributions of two totally different artists should be easy for supposed experts. And it should be especially easy for someone that claims to know enough to know that there was collaboration in the first place!
As a guide for the future, let’s break down the Normandie clock and figure out who contributed what and see if we can make some sense out of the whole collaboration abomination! Here are the 5 clock components that we have to assign to somebody:
1. The round face/dial of the clock – the basic shape and style
2. The movement
3. The hands
4. The boat depiction on the face
5. The clunky waves base
1. The face/dial is easy: ATO had several clock models whose face is strikingly similar to the one on the Normandie clock and the later knockoff clock. ATO made minor alterations to an existing face as the basis for the one you see on Normandie clock.
2. The movement is also easy: ATO was in the clock business and the movement is theirs.
3. The clock hands again easy: ATO used these same hands on other models.
4. The boat depiction: We don’t know who created the line drawing of the boat on the clock face. But we have identified the source document that the line drawing was made from. The line drawing on the clock is basically an exact copy of the lines of a boat illustrated on the document. The document is not the work of René Lalique. It’s hard to imagine “collaborating” with René Lalique for the purpose of getting him to create a line drawing from someone else’s existing artwork. And it’s also hard to imagine he would agree to do it. And basically you wouldn’t need him for that line drawing, any art school kid could have done it and more importantly, ATO had plenty of employees that could do it as well. Obviously ATO did design lots of clocks, clock faces and clock cases. The Normandie Clock model was “not their first rodeo”**.
5. The clunky waves base: So we are left with the clunky waves base. That my friends would have to be the design of René Lalique for him to have had anything to do with the Normandie clock. If you believe it’s even possible that Lalique designed the waves base or even worse if you believe it’s true, we have a bridge to sell you, a bridge we recently discovered was a collaboration bridge between René Lalique, the Catholic Church, and the City of San Francisco! Yes, yes, evidence of the bridge collaboration was moved for safekeeping in 1906 after the the great earthquake, to the Mission San Francisco de Asís along with other important documents and they were later sent to the Vatican archives where all documents from the Mission were regularly transported. And the existence of those documents at the Vatican is confirmed by the great-great-great-great-great-great-etc.-grandson of one of the people whose 2nd cousin worked at the Mission repairing fence posts in the early 1900’s. And it is known that Lalique visited the United States in the early 1900’s and was himself a Catholic. So everything adds up! When you take possession of your new collaboration bridge, while there, you likely will see people getting ready to jump off your bridge after realizing the money they flushed away relying on false claims of formerly respectable auction houses and their formerly respectable employees and contractors saying René Lalique collaborated on the Normandie clock, or even worse on the less valuable later mass marketed knockoff. Assuming you yourself have not jumped off your new bridge, please contact us again as we also have a Tiffany-Lalique Collaboration Belt Buckle and a Cartier-Lalique Collaboration Brooch to sell you! Editor’s Note: There is ZERO evidence that the items at the 2 preceding links have anything to do with René Lalique. So in reality, they are “in the same boat”*** shall we say as the Normandie Clock!
Common Sense: Artists, glassmakers, clockmakers, etc. are in the business of making money. So when 2 famous figures collaborate, they publicize it at the time because they want to sell things; that’s what they do. Imagine if René Lalique and Léon Hatot (ATO) collaborated on the Normandie clock, and didn’t tell anyone at the time! Apparently these two guys kept the whole thing a secret, and it was just discovered in the modern era likely by an auction house specialist/expert that had one of the clocks coming up for auction! Kudos to whoever made-up the collaboration scam in the first place and count your lucky stars that Bunko**** squads are a thing of the past!
****Bunko Squads (also Bunco): From the Urban Dictionary: “The bunco squad is those policemen who investigate confidence swindles.” In use from the 40’s through the 60’s. Not usual among law enforcement today.”
Our Layman’s view comment: A confidence swindle is when someone gains your confidence/trust for the specific purpose of taking advantage of you in some way (typically financial) once they have your confidence/trust. So first they get your trust, then they get your money.
*Hifalutin: From Merriam-Webster.com: Pretentious, Pompous. Hifalutin can also be something “expressed in or marked by the use of language that is “elaborated or heightened by artificial or empty means”
**Not their first rodeo: This is an idiom***** in common use in the United States indicating the speaker or person/company referred to has prior experience in the subject being discussed (the subject can be good or bad for the speaker). The first widespread appearance of this phrase is thought to be from the movie Mommie Dearest in 1981 when Joan Crawford who was portraying Faye Dunaway says: “This ain’t my first time at the rodeo!” Think of a person being arrested and the police start reading them their rights and they interrupt and say ” I know my rights, this ain’t my first time at the rodeo!”
*****Idiom: According to the Cambridge Distionary, an Idiom is “a group of words in a fixed order that has a particular meaning that is different from the meanings of each word on its own”. Another more common idiom would be “I bit off more than I can chew” meaning that what you tried to do was too difficult for you.
***In the same boat: An Idiom that means in the same difficult condition or facing the same problem(s) as someone or something else: Think of a group of kids wanting to go hang-out at the mall: “None of us has a car, so we’re all in the same boat. Let’s start walking!”
As always, if anyone out there in Lalique land has any problem with anything we’ve said in this post, please let us know. We will promptly and cheerfully make any necessary corrections. How to comment? There are 2 options. You can leave your comment in the blog under this article. Commenting requires registration. Or the 2nd option is to email to info@rlalique.com with the subject Collaboration. Subject to review and approval, we likely would just paste your email into the comment section here. Though as always, we reserve the right to use or not use incoming emails and their contents in any way including publishing part or all of an email on the website.
Swatch Confirms There Is No Document in the ATO Archives Linking Rene Lalique To The Normandie Clock
February 28th, 2024
February 28, 2024: Earlier this month, we contacted the Japanese watch company Swatch. Swatch is in possession of the ATO archives. We asked them to research the archives to answer one simple question: Is there any actual documentation in the archives connecting René Lalique in any way to the clock that ATO created around 1935 as a commission from CGT (the boat owner) for the maiden voyage of the Normandie Ocean Liner?
They agreed to research the ATO archives for us and several days later responded indicating there is no document in the ATO archives linking René Lalique to the Normandie Clock. All our communications with Swatch are documented; there was no phone call or chitchat.
This should end the ridiculous false claims and false inferences made-up by auction houses and their various infamous “Experts” that say there is a document in the ATO archives somehow linking René Lalique to the ATO Normandie clock. Sadly, these claims have been made by several auction houses that were informed of the falsity of the claims of René Lalique’s involvement prior to their selling a Normandie clock or a later knock-off/close-copy version of the original commissioned Normandie clock with the claim of Lalique’s involvement. Just referring to the knock/off close-copy version as a Normandie Clock is ridiculous especially when you are aware that ATO removed all Normandie and boat owner markings from the original clock in order mass-market their later knock/off close-copy of that original clock. That later version was “de-Normandized” and then mass-marketed! So the value of the much more common knock/off close-copy mass-market version is not the same as the value of an actual Normandie Clock that has NORMANDIE spelled out on the dial, and the molded boat owners name on the reverse. There were a limited number of original Normandie Clocks made, and they were turned over to CGT to give to passengers on the first voyage. We have seen some clever wording and false statements in various auction house listings conflating the two clocks when the one they have is the much more common less valuable later knock/off mass-marketed close-copy.
Further Note: This ATO Archives false document claim when made is always made-up by formerly respectable auction houses and not by any credible institutional organization! We have never heard this claim being made by the Lalique Company or by any museum including the Musée Lalique in Alsace (who also confirmed directly to us that they have no evidence to support a claim of René Lalique involvement with the clock). Of course the clock is not and never was in the Catalogue Raisonne. And now we know for certain this false claim is not supported by any document in the ATO archives. It’s just a made-up and false claim that was never supported with any facts or evidence. The claim is now completely debunked by Swatch. And needless to say, we are gratified that Swatch agreed to undertake this time-consuming research on our behalf. They had no obligation to do so, and their assistance will obviously help put an end to this nonsense and make our collecting field a safer place for typical collectors.
And as always, if anyone out there in Lalique land thinks we have anything wrong in this announcement, please leave any comments about the announcement at Reality Check. We will promptly and cheerfully make any necessary corrections! Note that to leave comments you have to register. Registration is typcially quick and simple. We prefer that comments get made at the previous link where unless they violate our terms of use or are inappropriate in other ways, they will become available to all readers. If you don’t want to register and comment in the blog, you can email us at info@rlalique.com with NORMANDIE in the subject line. We reserve the right at all times to make use of incoming emails as we see fit, including but not limited to copying and pasting them directly into the appropriate linked section for blog comments on this topic.
This announcement was updated with additional information, commentary, and commenting options on March 1,3,5 2024 and July 4,20 2024.
February 28, 2024: Earlier this month, we contacted the Japanese watch company Swatch. Swatch is in possession of the ATO archives. We asked them to research the archives to answer one simple question: Is there any actual documentation in the archives connecting René Lalique in any way to the clock that ATO created around 1935 as a commission from CGT (the boat owner) for the maiden voyage of the Normandie Ocean Liner?
They agreed to research the ATO archives for us and several days later responded indicating there is no document in the ATO archives linking René Lalique to the Normandie Clock. All our communications with Swatch are documented; there was no phone call or chitchat.
This should end the ridiculous false claims and false inferences made-up by auction houses and their various infamous “Experts” that say there is a document in the ATO archives somehow linking René Lalique to the ATO Normandie clock. Sadly, these claims have been made by several auction houses that were informed of the falsity of the claims of René Lalique’s involvement prior to their selling a Normandie clock or a later knock-off/close-copy version of the original commissioned Normandie clock with the claim of Lalique’s involvement. Just referring to the knock/off close-copy version as a Normandie Clock is ridiculous especially when you are aware that ATO removed all Normandie and boat owner markings from the original clock in order mass-market their later knock/off close-copy of that original clock. That later version was “de-Normandized” and then mass-marketed! So the value of the much more common knock/off close-copy mass-market version is not the same as the value of an actual Normandie Clock that has NORMANDIE spelled out on the dial, and the molded boat owners name on the reverse. There were a limited number of original Normandie Clocks made, and they were turned over to CGT to give to passengers on the first voyage. We have seen some clever wording and false statements in various auction house listings conflating the two clocks when the one they have is the much more common less valuable later knock/off mass-marketed close-copy.
Further Note: This ATO Archives false document claim when made is always made-up by formerly respectable auction houses and not by any credible institutional organization! We have never heard this claim being made by the Lalique Company or by any museum including the Musée Lalique in Alsace (who also confirmed directly to us that they have no evidence to support a claim of René Lalique involvement with the clock). Of course the clock is not and never was in the Catalogue Raisonne. And now we know for certain this false claim is not supported by any document in the ATO archives. It’s just a made-up and false claim that was never supported with any facts or evidence. The claim is now completely debunked by Swatch. And needless to say, we are gratified that Swatch agreed to undertake this time-consuming research on our behalf. They had no obligation to do so, and their assistance will obviously help put an end to this nonsense and make our collecting field a safer place for typical collectors.
And as always, if anyone out there in Lalique land thinks we have anything wrong in this announcement, please leave any comments about the announcement at Reality Check. We will promptly and cheerfully make any necessary corrections! Note that to leave comments you have to register. Registration is typcially quick and simple. We prefer that comments get made at the previous link where unless they violate our terms of use or are inappropriate in other ways, they will become available to all readers. If you don’t want to register and comment in the blog, you can email us at info@rlalique.com with NORMANDIE in the subject line. We reserve the right at all times to make use of incoming emails as we see fit, including but not limited to copying and pasting them directly into the appropriate linked section for blog comments on this topic.
This announcement was updated with additional information, commentary, and commenting options on March 1,3,5 2024 and July 4,20 2024.
Auction Houses We Recommend Typical R. Lalique Collectors Avoid!
February 21st, 2024
Dear Readers, this will be a slow growing post beginning with the creation of a list of auction house names. Explanations will be added for each auction house stating why we included them on this list.
And when we say “Typical R. Lalique Collectors” we are excluding sophisticated and knowledgeable collectors with many years of collecting experience who may have already amassed large collections or been involved with R. Lalique for decades. Most R. Lalique collectors have a few to a few dozen pieces. They have bought things they liked, and are looking for opportunities to acquire more R. Lalique items that appeal to them. They don’t have the expertise of long time collectors because they don’t have the same level of experience in the collecting field. From our experience, many or most typical collectors are hoping that the items they buy will appreciate in value over time, and provide some kind of return on their investment while they enjoy their items as decorative objects.
For now, there are 3 things that can get an auction house listed in this article. 1st is if they sell fakes. 2nd is if we cannot confidently identify their business model (see discussion below about various “auction house” business models). 3rd of course is if we can identify their business model and we believe it creates unnecesary risks for buyers.
Why is it so important to know which auction houses will sell a fake, even after being given the evidence that their item is fake? In the modern world consumed by the internet, just about every time an auction house sells something at auction, it creates a near permanent record of the sale. When collectors are doing research, they come across these records, and use them to make decisions about purchases and sales. But those same records are used by unscrupulous sellers as reference points to con unsuspecting buyers both as to the value and the identification of the item. Unscrupulous sellers hunt down added examples of the fake that properly identified costs them only pennies on the dollar, because they now have a record to show a buyer from a “credible” auction house with the false I.D. and the crazy price. It’s no coincidence that after the first fake Ecailles Vase was sold at auction for good money, that a handful of others of the same fake appeared (and continue to appear) all over the world, dutifully altered to match the previous fakes in the auction records.
Also, many of the places that we will refer to as auction houses, are just retail stores running online auctions as part of their marketing strategy. Some are just people in an office so there is no store, AND no live events. So it’s not just places that have a live auction that you can attend. For many of these “auction houses”, the only way to bid is online as they don’t conduct live in-person auctions. Finally, we will not list auctions on our main auction page that are being conducted by any of the “auction houses” on this list. And as is always our policy, if anyone has a problem with any information contained in the following list, we will cheerfully and promptly make any necessary corrections.
So enough with the chitchat, the first entry is a no brainer.
1. HERITAGE AUCTIONS – DALLAS TEXAS. Heritage is one of the largest auction houses in the world by total sales, and they may be one of the top five auction houses in the world when ranked by sales. Heritage is generally well respected. Unfortunately, Heritage has a history of offering fake non-R. Lalique items as R. Lalique. They claim their expert in the works of René Lalique is the leading U.S. authority! Here it is from their website: “He has held an annual exhibition and sale of Lalique glass hood ornaments at the Pebble Beach Concours D’Elegance since 1993, and is considered this country’s leading authority on the work of Rene Lalique.” So out the window go the ignorance and mistake excuses:). We’ve written several blog posts about the goings on at Heritage in regard to fake offerings, one of which got nearly $12,000 at one of their sales, and another of which is the bizarre Square Plate with the phony signature that is still on the Heritage website as we write this (July 2024) looking for a sale, being re-offered apparently by the lucky winning bidder through some kind of re-offer program (pass the trash?) that Heritage has in place for those fortunate winning bidders.
2. GOLDFIELD AUCTIONS – WEISWAMPTACH LUXEMBOURG
They had a blue fake Ecailles Vase coming up in their September 2023 auction. We notified them with all appropriate information and evidence that it was a fake. They went ahead and sold it anyway. They got €1980 for it according to their own report of the sale.
Also on June 22nd, 2024 they had an obviously fake Longchamp Car Mascot as Lot 481. We notified them with all appropriate information including a link to an identical fake in the fakes section of the website and they sold it anyway getting an all-in price of €594 according to their own website where you can see the fake and judge for yourself.
Here is our message to Goldfield about the fake Longchamp:
Lot 0481: Rene LALIQUE (1860-1945) Mascotte radiator cap model “Longchamp” 1929.
Jun 08, 2024 4:10 PM MST
Hello. This is Greg from RLalique.com. I am writing to tell you that the horse head in your Lot 481 on June 21 is later copy, a fake. We urge you not to sell that fake as R. Lalique. You can check the model page for the actual R. Lalique model on the website. That model page has a lot of examples of what the actual Longchamp looks like, including all known signatures that appear on the Longchamp. and it also includes a link to examples of fakes, where you will see your horse head. Here is that model page link: https://rlalique.com/rene-lalique-longchamp-b-car-mascot.
Best Regards,
And if you have any questions, we would be happy to try and answer them. Greg
Greg
3. ACTIVITY AUCTIONS – DOVER DELEWARE
Activity auctions has a business model that if potential bidders knew what they were up to, they would have no bidders!
We aren’t sure what to call this place. Their business model appears to be as follows: Find Ebay auctions with brand name items. Take info from the Ebay listings including photos, and list it in their own online auction elsewhere at a higher price than the Ebay listing without of course mentioning that they do not have possession or ownership of the item they are “auctioning” off, or that it is available for less money on Ebay, or that they have no authority to sell the item. It seems you can just look at any item in any of their online auctions that appear in LiveAuctioneers, Invaluable, and Bidsquare, and just go to Ebay and pay less.
Assumedly if someone bids at their auction on LiveAuctioneers/Invaluable etc. and the bid is higher than the Ebay fixed price, they will then buy it from the Ebay seller if they can, and deliver it at the higher price to their winning bidder. What could go wrong 🙂
Basically it appears they are auctioning off things they do not have possession of, that they are not in control of, that they do not have on consigment in any way, and that they have no authority to sell because they do not own or have the item in their possession. Based on their apparent business model as described above, no one should ever buy anything from Activity Auctions as it seems it will always be cheaper going to the current owner and possessor of the item on Ebay. Obviously the bidders in their online auctions are not aware of the this information. And thinking about their business model, who would want to involve themselves with these people if they were aware of what they were doing? Nobody.
4. NCM AUCTIONS – UK
NCM auctions has a statement in their auction listings: Multiple Site – Delivery Arranged. That raises questions about what their business model looks like, so we sent them the following email just asking some simple questions:
Hello. We were considering listing your upcoming sale on our website but wanted to confirm a couple of things based on information in the lot listings. Our questions:
Are you currently in possession of the items to be auctioned? If so what is their current physical location? What does the statement “Multiple Site – Delivery Arranged” indicate?
Please let us know,
Thanks,
Greg
After waiting over a month for a reply, we sent another email as follows:
Hello. Hoping to get a response from the below email (that was just a copy of the previous email). Please let us know.
Thanks
Greg
NCM never responded to our emails including not responding to the question if they are in possession of the items they are auctioning (seems like an easy yes/no answer). As a result we recommend you avoid this auction house until such time as they decide to give more details about their business model so that collectors bidding at their auctions can assess what risks there may or may not be when bidding with NCM.
5. IM KINSKY Vienna, Austria
They sold a fake Ecailles Vase that did not match any documentation (well, except the documented fakes) including a photo from the Percy Book of an actual Ecailles Vase that they used as a reference notwithstanding the photo not matching their fake. You can read the sordid details HERE!
6. MONTANA ANTIQUES (MONTANA AUCTIONS)
This auction house first appeared on our radar near the end of 2023. They were advertising an aucton on LiveAuctioneers that they said was being held in France. However, when we looked into the company Montana Antiques, we found it was a Grimsby UK antiques dealer.
Here is the info on Montana Antique (Montana Auctions) from https://opengovuk.com › company › 14771028
https://opengovuk.com › company › 14771028
Montana Antiques Limited · Office 2903 – 44 Evesham Avenue, Grimsby …
Overview . Montana Antiques Limited is an entity registered with the Companies House, Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy, United Kingdom. The company number is #14771028. The business office address is Office 2903 – 44 Evesham Avenue, Grimsby, DN34 5RT, ENGLAND.
Having reservations about the supposed sale in France, we wrote to Montana Antiques and received a reply as follows:
Gregory Zimmerman
Dec 28, 2023 5:06 AM MST
Hello. About your current European Collectibles Auction, is there a physical location where all the items you have listed will be auctioned from? And can you tell us where are the items (are) located and can they be inspected in person prior to the bidding? And do you have possession of all the items that are listed for the auction? Greg
Montana Antiques
Dec 28, 2023 7:34 AM MST
Hello always happy to help! All our items located in different warehouses we can provide more photos for every item .
Thank you.
So they offered photos we didn’t ask for, while ignoring most of the info we did ask for!
As we currently write this in late July 2024 they have re-appeared with an address in New Castle Delaware for an auction listed on LiveAuctioneers.
And here is a comment left for them by a LiveAuctioneers verified buyer (Cato) at one of their LiveAuctioneers auctions:
“Cato
Fairfax, VA
Dec 19, 2023
Scam
Payment made more than five weeks ago and no item delivered Obviously a scam and fake good reviews. BE AWARE!”
For us, there are too many unanswered questions about their business model and whether or not they have any of the stuff they are purporting to auction off. Obviously if a supposed auction house doesn’t have a way for you to inspect the items on sale, you really shouldn’t be bidding with them :). This applies to all collectors, not just typical collectors. So we strongly urge you to avoid the Grimsby UK based Montana Antiques (Montana Auctions).
Dear Readers, this will be a slow growing post beginning with the creation of a list of auction house names. Explanations will be added for each auction house stating why we included them on this list.
And when we say “Typical R. Lalique Collectors” we are excluding sophisticated and knowledgeable collectors with many years of collecting experience who may have already amassed large collections or been involved with R. Lalique for decades. Most R. Lalique collectors have a few to a few dozen pieces. They have bought things they liked, and are looking for opportunities to acquire more R. Lalique items that appeal to them. They don’t have the expertise of long time collectors because they don’t have the same level of experience in the collecting field. From our experience, many or most typical collectors are hoping that the items they buy will appreciate in value over time, and provide some kind of return on their investment while they enjoy their items as decorative objects.
For now, there are 3 things that can get an auction house listed in this article. 1st is if they sell fakes. 2nd is if we cannot confidently identify their business model (see discussion below about various “auction house” business models). 3rd of course is if we can identify their business model and we believe it creates unnecesary risks for buyers.
Why is it so important to know which auction houses will sell a fake, even after being given the evidence that their item is fake? In the modern world consumed by the internet, just about every time an auction house sells something at auction, it creates a near permanent record of the sale. When collectors are doing research, they come across these records, and use them to make decisions about purchases and sales. But those same records are used by unscrupulous sellers as reference points to con unsuspecting buyers both as to the value and the identification of the item. Unscrupulous sellers hunt down added examples of the fake that properly identified costs them only pennies on the dollar, because they now have a record to show a buyer from a “credible” auction house with the false I.D. and the crazy price. It’s no coincidence that after the first fake Ecailles Vase was sold at auction for good money, that a handful of others of the same fake appeared (and continue to appear) all over the world, dutifully altered to match the previous fakes in the auction records.
Also, many of the places that we will refer to as auction houses, are just retail stores running online auctions as part of their marketing strategy. Some are just people in an office so there is no store, AND no live events. So it’s not just places that have a live auction that you can attend. For many of these “auction houses”, the only way to bid is online as they don’t conduct live in-person auctions. Finally, we will not list auctions on our main auction page that are being conducted by any of the “auction houses” on this list. And as is always our policy, if anyone has a problem with any information contained in the following list, we will cheerfully and promptly make any necessary corrections.
So enough with the chitchat, the first entry is a no brainer.
1. HERITAGE AUCTIONS – DALLAS TEXAS. Heritage is one of the largest auction houses in the world by total sales, and they may be one of the top five auction houses in the world when ranked by sales. Heritage is generally well respected. Unfortunately, Heritage has a history of offering fake non-R. Lalique items as R. Lalique. They claim their expert in the works of René Lalique is the leading U.S. authority! Here it is from their website: “He has held an annual exhibition and sale of Lalique glass hood ornaments at the Pebble Beach Concours D’Elegance since 1993, and is considered this country’s leading authority on the work of Rene Lalique.” So out the window go the ignorance and mistake excuses:). We’ve written several blog posts about the goings on at Heritage in regard to fake offerings, one of which got nearly $12,000 at one of their sales, and another of which is the bizarre Square Plate with the phony signature that is still on the Heritage website as we write this (July 2024) looking for a sale, being re-offered apparently by the lucky winning bidder through some kind of re-offer program (pass the trash?) that Heritage has in place for those fortunate winning bidders.
2. GOLDFIELD AUCTIONS – WEISWAMPTACH LUXEMBOURG
They had a blue fake Ecailles Vase coming up in their September 2023 auction. We notified them with all appropriate information and evidence that it was a fake. They went ahead and sold it anyway. They got €1980 for it according to their own report of the sale.
Also on June 22nd, 2024 they had an obviously fake Longchamp Car Mascot as Lot 481. We notified them with all appropriate information including a link to an identical fake in the fakes section of the website and they sold it anyway getting an all-in price of €594 according to their own website where you can see the fake and judge for yourself.
Here is our message to Goldfield about the fake Longchamp:
Lot 0481: Rene LALIQUE (1860-1945) Mascotte radiator cap model “Longchamp” 1929.
Jun 08, 2024 4:10 PM MST
Hello. This is Greg from RLalique.com. I am writing to tell you that the horse head in your Lot 481 on June 21 is later copy, a fake. We urge you not to sell that fake as R. Lalique. You can check the model page for the actual R. Lalique model on the website. That model page has a lot of examples of what the actual Longchamp looks like, including all known signatures that appear on the Longchamp. and it also includes a link to examples of fakes, where you will see your horse head. Here is that model page link: https://rlalique.com/rene-lalique-longchamp-b-car-mascot.
Best Regards,
And if you have any questions, we would be happy to try and answer them. Greg
Greg
3. ACTIVITY AUCTIONS – DOVER DELEWARE
Activity auctions has a business model that if potential bidders knew what they were up to, they would have no bidders!
We aren’t sure what to call this place. Their business model appears to be as follows: Find Ebay auctions with brand name items. Take info from the Ebay listings including photos, and list it in their own online auction elsewhere at a higher price than the Ebay listing without of course mentioning that they do not have possession or ownership of the item they are “auctioning” off, or that it is available for less money on Ebay, or that they have no authority to sell the item. It seems you can just look at any item in any of their online auctions that appear in LiveAuctioneers, Invaluable, and Bidsquare, and just go to Ebay and pay less.
Assumedly if someone bids at their auction on LiveAuctioneers/Invaluable etc. and the bid is higher than the Ebay fixed price, they will then buy it from the Ebay seller if they can, and deliver it at the higher price to their winning bidder. What could go wrong 🙂
Basically it appears they are auctioning off things they do not have possession of, that they are not in control of, that they do not have on consigment in any way, and that they have no authority to sell because they do not own or have the item in their possession. Based on their apparent business model as described above, no one should ever buy anything from Activity Auctions as it seems it will always be cheaper going to the current owner and possessor of the item on Ebay. Obviously the bidders in their online auctions are not aware of the this information. And thinking about their business model, who would want to involve themselves with these people if they were aware of what they were doing? Nobody.
4. NCM AUCTIONS – UK
NCM auctions has a statement in their auction listings: Multiple Site – Delivery Arranged. That raises questions about what their business model looks like, so we sent them the following email just asking some simple questions:
Hello. We were considering listing your upcoming sale on our website but wanted to confirm a couple of things based on information in the lot listings. Our questions:
Are you currently in possession of the items to be auctioned? If so what is their current physical location? What does the statement “Multiple Site – Delivery Arranged” indicate?
Please let us know,
Thanks,
Greg
After waiting over a month for a reply, we sent another email as follows:
Hello. Hoping to get a response from the below email (that was just a copy of the previous email). Please let us know.
Thanks
Greg
NCM never responded to our emails including not responding to the question if they are in possession of the items they are auctioning (seems like an easy yes/no answer). As a result we recommend you avoid this auction house until such time as they decide to give more details about their business model so that collectors bidding at their auctions can assess what risks there may or may not be when bidding with NCM.
5. IM KINSKY Vienna, Austria
They sold a fake Ecailles Vase that did not match any documentation (well, except the documented fakes) including a photo from the Percy Book of an actual Ecailles Vase that they used as a reference notwithstanding the photo not matching their fake. You can read the sordid details HERE!
6. MONTANA ANTIQUES (MONTANA AUCTIONS)
This auction house first appeared on our radar near the end of 2023. They were advertising an aucton on LiveAuctioneers that they said was being held in France. However, when we looked into the company Montana Antiques, we found it was a Grimsby UK antiques dealer.
Here is the info on Montana Antique (Montana Auctions) from https://opengovuk.com › company › 14771028
https://opengovuk.com › company › 14771028
Montana Antiques Limited · Office 2903 – 44 Evesham Avenue, Grimsby …
Overview . Montana Antiques Limited is an entity registered with the Companies House, Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy, United Kingdom. The company number is #14771028. The business office address is Office 2903 – 44 Evesham Avenue, Grimsby, DN34 5RT, ENGLAND.
Having reservations about the supposed sale in France, we wrote to Montana Antiques and received a reply as follows:
Gregory Zimmerman
Dec 28, 2023 5:06 AM MST
Hello. About your current European Collectibles Auction, is there a physical location where all the items you have listed will be auctioned from? And can you tell us where are the items (are) located and can they be inspected in person prior to the bidding? And do you have possession of all the items that are listed for the auction? Greg
Montana Antiques
Dec 28, 2023 7:34 AM MST
Hello always happy to help! All our items located in different warehouses we can provide more photos for every item .
Thank you.
So they offered photos we didn’t ask for, while ignoring most of the info we did ask for!
As we currently write this in late July 2024 they have re-appeared with an address in New Castle Delaware for an auction listed on LiveAuctioneers.
And here is a comment left for them by a LiveAuctioneers verified buyer (Cato) at one of their LiveAuctioneers auctions:
“Cato
Fairfax, VA
Dec 19, 2023
Scam
Payment made more than five weeks ago and no item delivered Obviously a scam and fake good reviews. BE AWARE!”
For us, there are too many unanswered questions about their business model and whether or not they have any of the stuff they are purporting to auction off. Obviously if a supposed auction house doesn’t have a way for you to inspect the items on sale, you really shouldn’t be bidding with them :). This applies to all collectors, not just typical collectors. So we strongly urge you to avoid the Grimsby UK based Montana Antiques (Montana Auctions).
Normandie Loose-Copy Not R. Lalique Clock At Auction June 24th!
Diogenes Would Be Smiling!
May 8th, 2023
We can’t start without saying that we have never seen a scintilla* of evidence linking René Lalique to the commissioned Normandie Clock or to this later loose-copy of that clock. The clocks are great art deco objects! But evidence free claims do not make them R. Lalique! No such claims are being made for the clock discussed below.
The 5th/4th Century BC cynic and philosopher Diogenes spent much of his time pushing back against what he saw as the base and corrupt Greek society in which he lived. He harassed and criticized Plato, dogged the Greek philosopher Antisthenes, and mocked Alexander The Great to his face! Diogenes would walk the streets during the day carrying a lamp, and when asked what he was doing replied “I’m looking for an honest man.” **
We don’t know if he ever found an honest man, but we have! And his name is Romain Merien.
On June 24, 2023 in Orleans France at the Pousse-Cornet – Valoir Auction House, a later loose-copy of the original Normandie Clock is coming up for sale as Lot 115. It’s been a long time since we’ve seen a description for this clock at auction that is even close to accurate, but the dry spell will end in Orleans on June 24th!
Here is the lot description in French followed by the Google translator English Version:
Maison ATO
Rare pendulette en verre opalescent moulé à décor en léger relief sur le cadran figurant le paquebot Normandie.
Elle repose sur une base pyramidale simulant des vagues
Marquée a revers ATO – Made in France
H: 15 cm Un micro éclat dans la partie supérieure
Modèle proche de la pendulette offerte lors du voyage inaugural du Normandie en 1935
ATO House
Rare molded opalescent glass clock with light relief decoration on the dial depicting the Normandy liner.
It rests on a pyramidal base simulating waves
Marked on the reverse ATO – Made in France
H: 15cm A micro chip in the upper part
Model close to the clock offered during the maiden voyage of Normandy in 1935
If you’re looking for one of these clocks, we recommend you consider this one. Why not support the honest offerers as opposed to those making baseless, undocumented, ridiculous, and flat out false claims.
For extensive discussion and information on our site about this clock see the Normandie Later Loose-Copy Clock Page.
NOTE: Following is the link to the original Lot 115 Clock listing on drouot.com.
You can contact Romain at +33 02 38 54 00 00 / orleans@poussecornet.com and the web site is Pousse-Cornet.
* Scintilla is a tiny trace.
** There is some debate about the translation typically used in English whether or not it’s just “man” or “honest man”, but the “honest man” version we are using literally creates the theme for our article so of course we went with it! At World Headquarters we call it Literary License!
*** Diogenes Statue Image Credit Michael F. Schönitzer, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons
We can’t start without saying that we have never seen a scintilla* of evidence linking René Lalique to the commissioned Normandie Clock or to this later loose-copy of that clock. The clocks are great art deco objects! But evidence free claims do not make them R. Lalique! No such claims are being made for the clock discussed below.
The 5th/4th Century BC cynic and philosopher Diogenes spent much of his time pushing back against what he saw as the base and corrupt Greek society in which he lived. He harassed and criticized Plato, dogged the Greek philosopher Antisthenes, and mocked Alexander The Great to his face! Diogenes would walk the streets during the day carrying a lamp, and when asked what he was doing replied “I’m looking for an honest man.” **
We don’t know if he ever found an honest man, but we have! And his name is Romain Merien.
On June 24, 2023 in Orleans France at the Pousse-Cornet – Valoir Auction House, a later loose-copy of the original Normandie Clock is coming up for sale as Lot 115. It’s been a long time since we’ve seen a description for this clock at auction that is even close to accurate, but the dry spell will end in Orleans on June 24th!
Here is the lot description in French followed by the Google translator English Version:
Maison ATO
Rare pendulette en verre opalescent moulé à décor en léger relief sur le cadran figurant le paquebot Normandie.
Elle repose sur une base pyramidale simulant des vagues
Marquée a revers ATO – Made in France
H: 15 cm Un micro éclat dans la partie supérieure
Modèle proche de la pendulette offerte lors du voyage inaugural du Normandie en 1935
ATO House
Rare molded opalescent glass clock with light relief decoration on the dial depicting the Normandy liner.
It rests on a pyramidal base simulating waves
Marked on the reverse ATO – Made in France
H: 15cm A micro chip in the upper part
Model close to the clock offered during the maiden voyage of Normandy in 1935
If you’re looking for one of these clocks, we recommend you consider this one. Why not support the honest offerers as opposed to those making baseless, undocumented, ridiculous, and flat out false claims.
For extensive discussion and information on our site about this clock see the Normandie Later Loose-Copy Clock Page.
NOTE: Following is the link to the original Lot 115 Clock listing on drouot.com.
You can contact Romain at +33 02 38 54 00 00 / orleans@poussecornet.com and the web site is Pousse-Cornet.
* Scintilla is a tiny trace.
** There is some debate about the translation typically used in English whether or not it’s just “man” or “honest man”, but the “honest man” version we are using literally creates the theme for our article so of course we went with it! At World Headquarters we call it Literary License!
*** Diogenes Statue Image Credit Michael F. Schönitzer, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons
A Square Deal On Offer At Heritage?
December 29th, 2022
Back on October 22, 2015 Heritage Auctions sold a fake plate as an “R. Lalique Clear and Frosted Square Plate circa 1930. 6 inches long”. The plate is obviously ridiculous and any signature on it for R. Lalique in any way would be a forgery. Bravo, the lucky winning bidder for the total nonsense plate paid only $187.50 all-in according to the Heritage website as shown in the screen shot below. What a bargain.
Assumedly, that lucky winning bidder, apparently trying to turn their supposed luck into actual profits, has the fake plate for sale for $995 on the Heritage website through some kind of private sale or re-offer program that Heritage has for its customers.
If you believe the Heritage description about the expertise of their Lalique “authority” (according to the Heritage Bio: so and so “is considered this country’s leading authority on the work of Rene Lalique”), putting the fake plate into circulation at one of their auctions cannot be some kind of mistake, misunderstanding, or oversight. It’s a joke, and unfortunately the joke is on the current owner assuming they actually paid the $187.50 shown on the Heritage website for the fake plate.
This is not the first time we have highlighted fake items offered as R. Lalique through Heritage in recent years. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were the last time? The “authority” at Heritage sold their reputation for just under $12,000 with the obviously fake Ecailles Vase. A previous post concerning the infamous fake “Unfinished Pink Acanthes Vase” put the value of the authority’s reputation at $500 (but apparently you could have made a lower offer). And now we see this fake plate that drops that value to under $200. How low will this go before it stops?
Below is a screen shot of the square deal on the Heritage website. And here is a direct link so you can see the Fake Square Plate for yourself at Heritage.
Back on October 22, 2015 Heritage Auctions sold a fake plate as an “R. Lalique Clear and Frosted Square Plate circa 1930. 6 inches long”. The plate is obviously ridiculous and any signature on it for R. Lalique in any way would be a forgery. Bravo, the lucky winning bidder for the total nonsense plate paid only $187.50 all-in according to the Heritage website as shown in the screen shot below. What a bargain.
Assumedly, that lucky winning bidder, apparently trying to turn their supposed luck into actual profits, has the fake plate for sale for $995 on the Heritage website through some kind of private sale or re-offer program that Heritage has for its customers.
If you believe the Heritage description about the expertise of their Lalique “authority” (according to the Heritage Bio: so and so “is considered this country’s leading authority on the work of Rene Lalique”), putting the fake plate into circulation at one of their auctions cannot be some kind of mistake, misunderstanding, or oversight. It’s a joke, and unfortunately the joke is on the current owner assuming they actually paid the $187.50 shown on the Heritage website for the fake plate.
This is not the first time we have highlighted fake items offered as R. Lalique through Heritage in recent years. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were the last time? The “authority” at Heritage sold their reputation for just under $12,000 with the obviously fake Ecailles Vase. A previous post concerning the infamous fake “Unfinished Pink Acanthes Vase” put the value of the authority’s reputation at $500 (but apparently you could have made a lower offer). And now we see this fake plate that drops that value to under $200. How low will this go before it stops?
Below is a screen shot of the square deal on the Heritage website. And here is a direct link so you can see the Fake Square Plate for yourself at Heritage.
Louis Cartier & René Lalique Rare Brooch At A Christie’s Paris Online Jewelry Sale
July 27th, 2022
OUTER SPACE
Selling on July 7th, 2022 as Lot 17 in a Christie’s Paris online auction finally appears evidence of the long rumored collaboration between Cartier and Lalique! The unlikely confirmation came in the form of a stork, wolf, and sun motif platinum and rock crystal 8-sided boatload of rose-cut diamonds and a couple of square-cut sapphires brooch that the auction house dates to 1910. Crazy when you think about it that this masterpiece of early 20th century design has seemingly remained hidden from public view (or at least hidden from our view) for over 110 years until it came out in Paris in July. And sure enough, when you turn it over, there are signatures for both Cartier and Lalique! What are the odds that it appears in our lifetimes? How blessed are we to even see a picture of it?
PLANET EARTH
Now, returning to planet earth, there was no rumor of collaboration between Cartier and Lalique that ever reached our rumor piqued ears, we made that up. And conceding we don’t know everything (just don’t tell our kids that), in the last 110 years no evidence of any such collaboration has appeared. When asked, the auction house said the only evidence they have for saying anything about a collaboration is the R. Lalique signature on the back of the brooch. And there we have it of course. Wishful thinking standing reality on its head with no documentation. In keeping with our often stated advice to typical collectors, signatures, no matter how much wishful thinking is floating around in outer space above, do not typically authenticate R. Lalique pieces down here on planet earth. Most signatures are easily faked. And while some signatures are obviously fake (we’ll leave you to judge for yourself which category the R. Lalique signature on the brooch fits into from among the several possible options), it is meaningless to evaluate a signature if you cannot document or back-up the piece the signature is on. We advise collectors to evaluate the piece first, and then look to the signature for confirmation on their judgment. In this case, the first obvious question would be “What was Lalique’s contribution to this piece?”. Was it the wolf, the stork, the sun, the shape, the diamonds filled surround, the sapphires, the platinum, the rock cyrstal…? Another might be … What about the design, materials, and style of this piece tells you it’s from our guy? And one more thought you might have is …… Why is this the apparently first we’ve heard about it in 110 years? If you conclude it’s just not him, then no signature should convince you otherwise. Lalique kept lots of records, drawings, etc. We assume Cartier did the same. And a piece assigned this level of importance would hopefully have been mentioned or pictured in period publications. These guys were in business to make money. Why collaborate if you aren’t going to tell anyone :). The judgment of the market? At a seemingly low estimate of €20,000 – €40,000, the brooch made €22,680 all-in. Heck, even FAKE molded all-glass dome shaped mass-produced commercially sold rings falsely claimed to be R. Lalique have made around that much without any signature at all and with a much shorter story. Maybe the “We’ll take your word for it” crowd has a spending limit in that €20,000 or so range?
As is our modus operandi, if anyone out there in R. Lalique Land thinks we have anything wrong in this post, please let us know by posting a comment here. We will promptly and cheerfully make any appropriate corrections. And we welcome any comments from anyone having additional relevant information.
OUTER SPACE
Selling on July 7th, 2022 as Lot 17 in a Christie’s Paris online auction finally appears evidence of the long rumored collaboration between Cartier and Lalique! The unlikely confirmation came in the form of a stork, wolf, and sun motif platinum and rock crystal 8-sided boatload of rose-cut diamonds and a couple of square-cut sapphires brooch that the auction house dates to 1910. Crazy when you think about it that this masterpiece of early 20th century design has seemingly remained hidden from public view (or at least hidden from our view) for over 110 years until it came out in Paris in July. And sure enough, when you turn it over, there are signatures for both Cartier and Lalique! What are the odds that it appears in our lifetimes? How blessed are we to even see a picture of it?
PLANET EARTH
Now, returning to planet earth, there was no rumor of collaboration between Cartier and Lalique that ever reached our rumor piqued ears, we made that up. And conceding we don’t know everything (just don’t tell our kids that), in the last 110 years no evidence of any such collaboration has appeared. When asked, the auction house said the only evidence they have for saying anything about a collaboration is the R. Lalique signature on the back of the brooch. And there we have it of course. Wishful thinking standing reality on its head with no documentation. In keeping with our often stated advice to typical collectors, signatures, no matter how much wishful thinking is floating around in outer space above, do not typically authenticate R. Lalique pieces down here on planet earth. Most signatures are easily faked. And while some signatures are obviously fake (we’ll leave you to judge for yourself which category the R. Lalique signature on the brooch fits into from among the several possible options), it is meaningless to evaluate a signature if you cannot document or back-up the piece the signature is on. We advise collectors to evaluate the piece first, and then look to the signature for confirmation on their judgment. In this case, the first obvious question would be “What was Lalique’s contribution to this piece?”. Was it the wolf, the stork, the sun, the shape, the diamonds filled surround, the sapphires, the platinum, the rock cyrstal…? Another might be … What about the design, materials, and style of this piece tells you it’s from our guy? And one more thought you might have is …… Why is this the apparently first we’ve heard about it in 110 years? If you conclude it’s just not him, then no signature should convince you otherwise. Lalique kept lots of records, drawings, etc. We assume Cartier did the same. And a piece assigned this level of importance would hopefully have been mentioned or pictured in period publications. These guys were in business to make money. Why collaborate if you aren’t going to tell anyone :). The judgment of the market? At a seemingly low estimate of €20,000 – €40,000, the brooch made €22,680 all-in. Heck, even FAKE molded all-glass dome shaped mass-produced commercially sold rings falsely claimed to be R. Lalique have made around that much without any signature at all and with a much shorter story. Maybe the “We’ll take your word for it” crowd has a spending limit in that €20,000 or so range?
As is our modus operandi, if anyone out there in R. Lalique Land thinks we have anything wrong in this post, please let us know by posting a comment here. We will promptly and cheerfully make any appropriate corrections. And we welcome any comments from anyone having additional relevant information.
Im Kinsky Auction House Reports They Sold The Fake Ecailles Vase!
We recall the words of the great American showman P. T. Barnham**
“There’s A Sucker Born Every Minute And Two To Take Him”
July 8th, 2021
Im Kinsky auction house is reporting that they sold the René Lalique Vase Ecailles Fake Ecailles Vase that was Lot 627 on July 6th, 2021 for a hammer price of €5000 as shown in the 2nd and 3rd screen shots below. Assuming we deciphered their commissions page properly, the all-in total price is in the low to mid 6000 euros range. The approximate dollar equivalent would be in the low to mid 7000 dollars range. But whatever the exact final price, it’s a scandal.
Our initial post on this vase offering can be found at: Im Kinsky Auction House In Vienna Offers A Fake Ecailles Vase as René Lalique. In that post you’ll see the information documenting the fake that we sent to the email address listed for the Im Kinsky guys pictured below.
And as usual, if anyone out there in R. Lalique Land or anywhere else thinks we have anything wrong in this post, please let us know by leaving a comment here. We will promptly and cheerfully make any necessary corrections.
** P.T. Barnum: The quote in the title of this post is attributed to P.T. Barnum. Barnum was a famed American businessman, philanthropist, author, publisher, politician, and showman. He said of the latter “I am a showman by profession … and all the gilding shall make nothing else of me”. His most famous accomplishment was the founding of the Barnum & Bailey Circus (The Greatest Show On Earth) when he was 60 years old in 1870. Barnham died in 1891 but the show went on. In 1907 the circus was sold to the Ringling brothers and the show went on. In 1919 it was merged with the Ringling brothers’ circus and the show went on. The show finally ended its nearly 150-year run in 2017 with the closure of the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus.
Im Kinsky auction house is reporting that they sold the René Lalique Vase Ecailles Fake Ecailles Vase that was Lot 627 on July 6th, 2021 for a hammer price of €5000 as shown in the 2nd and 3rd screen shots below. Assuming we deciphered their commissions page properly, the all-in total price is in the low to mid 6000 euros range. The approximate dollar equivalent would be in the low to mid 7000 dollars range. But whatever the exact final price, it’s a scandal.
Our initial post on this vase offering can be found at: Im Kinsky Auction House In Vienna Offers A Fake Ecailles Vase as René Lalique. In that post you’ll see the information documenting the fake that we sent to the email address listed for the Im Kinsky guys pictured below.
And as usual, if anyone out there in R. Lalique Land or anywhere else thinks we have anything wrong in this post, please let us know by leaving a comment here. We will promptly and cheerfully make any necessary corrections.
** P.T. Barnum: The quote in the title of this post is attributed to P.T. Barnum. Barnum was a famed American businessman, philanthropist, author, publisher, politician, and showman. He said of the latter “I am a showman by profession … and all the gilding shall make nothing else of me”. His most famous accomplishment was the founding of the Barnum & Bailey Circus (The Greatest Show On Earth) when he was 60 years old in 1870. Barnham died in 1891 but the show went on. In 1907 the circus was sold to the Ringling brothers and the show went on. In 1919 it was merged with the Ringling brothers’ circus and the show went on. The show finally ended its nearly 150-year run in 2017 with the closure of the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus.
Worldwide Auction Listings Guideline Changes
June 24th, 2021
For a variety of reasons we are updating some of the guidelines we’ve been using to decide what auction items we will include in the Worldwide Auctions Section of the website. We have determined that our primary research and reporting mission will not be adversely affected by these changes, and they will free up additional time to further that mission. And we can and will make occasional exceptions to these guidelines if doing so comports with our mission.
Also, when we say we won’t include the following items, think about how we list auctions. We use one item from an auction that we picture and highlight, and then describe or link to other items in that auction. You see a picture of one item, but we tell you there are others. So exclude means the excluded items cannot be that highlighted (pictured) item. If an auction has only one item, and it’s excluded, we will not list that auction.
1. Damaged pieces: We are cutting out almost all damaged pieces from listings in the future. A minor nick on a base or rim may not disqualify a piece, but serious damage (cracks, larger chips, holes, serious polishing, restoration, etc.) will almost always result in the piece not being listed. We advise typical collectors not to purchase pieces with cracks, serious damage, holes, etc. Keep in mind there may be an issue with a piece that we just miss, or that we decide to list anyway for whatever reason. We are not representing anything to do with the condition or the authenticity of any item we list. Also keep in mind that this first change and all the others that follow are just guidelines and there will be exceptions. There is a disclaimer at the bottom of the auctions page for added information.
2. Pieces with added material: We are cutting out almost all items that have later metal trimmed areas including rims and bases, and any other kinds of additions or more than very minor alterations. Typical collectors should avoid such items based on the treatment they receive in the market in terms of value and salability. And of course, they are no longer original R. Lalique items once they are altered.
3. Pieces with missing material: We are cutting out almost all items that are missing pieces or parts. Examples are perfume bottles missing the stopper, a box bottom missing the lid etc.
4. Pieces with swapped material: We are cutting out almost all items that have a wrong piece such as a lamp with the wrong shade, a box with the wrong bottom etc. And this is a good place to give a specific example of an exception. We listed the Oreilles Perroquets Perfume Bottle even though it has the wrong stopper. However it’s an extremely rare and important bottle and we would not miss the chance of documenting the appearance of the bottle (with appropriate information about the stopper).
5. Pieces from auction houses that have sold fakes or engaged in other sharp practices: We have started to cut out auction houses that have a history of selling fakes or misrepresented pieces from having their items included in the auction listings. So examples include not just selling fakes, but also such things as misrepresenting the ages of items. This includes auction houses that we notify about a fake (almost always with documentation identifying what the fake really is) that go ahead and offer the misrepresented fake notwithstanding the evidence. And about other sharp practices, that would include purposefully misleading information about any item, including structuring a lot description or an entire catalogue or presentation in a way that can deceive typical collectors about any of the lots in that sale.
6. Pieces from stores that that have weekly or monthly sales as part of a retail marketing strategy: There are retail stores and dealer stall type locations that run regular auctions with high reserve merchandise that hardly ever changes much, and we see the same items over and over again. We typically don’t list those kinds of auctions.
7. Item Overkill: We may not list an auction where the item or items are extremely common pieces for which we have a huge number of examples in the catalogue, and that are valued in the low to mid-hundreds of dollars when in excellent original condition. There are several reasons for this including just a lack of time as we have lost contributors during the past few years. Note: We are always looking for help!
8. Online auctions such as Ebay: Online auctions that are not conducted by physical auction houses have a different set of guidelines and are not affected by the above changes.
For a variety of reasons we are updating some of the guidelines we’ve been using to decide what auction items we will include in the Worldwide Auctions Section of the website. We have determined that our primary research and reporting mission will not be adversely affected by these changes, and they will free up additional time to further that mission. And we can and will make occasional exceptions to these guidelines if doing so comports with our mission.
Also, when we say we won’t include the following items, think about how we list auctions. We use one item from an auction that we picture and highlight, and then describe or link to other items in that auction. You see a picture of one item, but we tell you there are others. So exclude means the excluded items cannot be that highlighted (pictured) item. If an auction has only one item, and it’s excluded, we will not list that auction.
1. Damaged pieces: We are cutting out almost all damaged pieces from listings in the future. A minor nick on a base or rim may not disqualify a piece, but serious damage (cracks, larger chips, holes, serious polishing, restoration, etc.) will almost always result in the piece not being listed. We advise typical collectors not to purchase pieces with cracks, serious damage, holes, etc. Keep in mind there may be an issue with a piece that we just miss, or that we decide to list anyway for whatever reason. We are not representing anything to do with the condition or the authenticity of any item we list. Also keep in mind that this first change and all the others that follow are just guidelines and there will be exceptions. There is a disclaimer at the bottom of the auctions page for added information.
2. Pieces with added material: We are cutting out almost all items that have later metal trimmed areas including rims and bases, and any other kinds of additions or more than very minor alterations. Typical collectors should avoid such items based on the treatment they receive in the market in terms of value and salability. And of course, they are no longer original R. Lalique items once they are altered.
3. Pieces with missing material: We are cutting out almost all items that are missing pieces or parts. Examples are perfume bottles missing the stopper, a box bottom missing the lid etc.
4. Pieces with swapped material: We are cutting out almost all items that have a wrong piece such as a lamp with the wrong shade, a box with the wrong bottom etc. And this is a good place to give a specific example of an exception. We listed the Oreilles Perroquets Perfume Bottle even though it has the wrong stopper. However it’s an extremely rare and important bottle and we would not miss the chance of documenting the appearance of the bottle (with appropriate information about the stopper).
5. Pieces from auction houses that have sold fakes or engaged in other sharp practices: We have started to cut out auction houses that have a history of selling fakes or misrepresented pieces from having their items included in the auction listings. So examples include not just selling fakes, but also such things as misrepresenting the ages of items. This includes auction houses that we notify about a fake (almost always with documentation identifying what the fake really is) that go ahead and offer the misrepresented fake notwithstanding the evidence. And about other sharp practices, that would include purposefully misleading information about any item, including structuring a lot description or an entire catalogue or presentation in a way that can deceive typical collectors about any of the lots in that sale.
6. Pieces from stores that that have weekly or monthly sales as part of a retail marketing strategy: There are retail stores and dealer stall type locations that run regular auctions with high reserve merchandise that hardly ever changes much, and we see the same items over and over again. We typically don’t list those kinds of auctions.
7. Item Overkill: We may not list an auction where the item or items are extremely common pieces for which we have a huge number of examples in the catalogue, and that are valued in the low to mid-hundreds of dollars when in excellent original condition. There are several reasons for this including just a lack of time as we have lost contributors during the past few years. Note: We are always looking for help!
8. Online auctions such as Ebay: Online auctions that are not conducted by physical auction houses have a different set of guidelines and are not affected by the above changes.
Ebay’s Hardweejun Rides Again
March 27th, 2021
It can be a dangerous world out there for online purchasers of R. Lalique. Our experience is that most people are honest, but there are always a few rotten apples to be avoided.
All the way back in in 2014 we wrote an article titled: Pierre Leblache – Hardweejun On Ebay – Buyer Beware. And we updated it a couple of times over the years.
But the hits just keep coming* and we decided it’s time to refresh and publicize part of the litany of false statements and false claims that characterize so many of his sales efforts with regard to various “R. Lalique” items. Keep in mind just as bank robbers don’t rob every bank they drive by, every single listing by Hardweejun may not contain false representations about the item he’s selling. But rest assured there is plenty of material out there.
Basically this guy just makes stuff up and in an apparent attempt to appear erudite tells longwinded stories about history that have so many fantasy or undocumented aspects we don’t have the time to catalogue the whole mess. All of this of course is to make a few dollars off some uninformed buyer of an “R. Lalique” item in various online sales listings, many of which are rife** with false representations. And he’s doing all this to get a couple of hundred bucks. We don’t know what his hourly rate is, but with the time involved in writing up some of this nonsense, doing the photos, and then creating the Ebay listing it seems like a low-return scam. Certainly a lot less than those 30 pieces of silver you’ve heard tell about.
Let’s get right to a couple specific examples:
Rene Lalique 1924: First Blue Bottle for Worth’s “Dans La Nuit” 5 1/2″. Signed. Updated 7-4-21 to delete link to Ebay listing that no longer works.
So obviousy what he is selling is post-war (the Utts say 1985) modern copy (with changes you might notice in the picture), of what was originally an R. Lalique design. The bottle is marked R. Lalique CREATION to the underside. We don’t even know who Worth had make it for them. Oh, and there is the metal neck collar that even though not red, would normally trigger a red alert.
Keeping the preceding in mind about what he is actually selling, let’s review some of his representations:
1. An original from between 1924 and 1930. (Our Note: An original from the around the 1980’s and transported back in time by the seller)
2. It is also the first (only?) time that Lalique sculpted into the bottle’s face the words “EAU DE TOILETTE” (Our Note: Lalique was long dead before anything was “sculpted” into this bottle)
3. signed R LALIQUE underneath (Our Note: Oops, left out that CREATION word that is so blurry in his photo if you don’t know what it says before looking, you likely can’t make it out. That blurry picture was a nice touch as if the camera suddenly stopped working properly. In certain circles they call this kind of activity – the specific omission and the blur – “consciousness of guilt”***. R. LALIQUE CREATION is the modern glassmaker giving credit to Rene Lalique as the original designer.)
4. Original/Reproduction: Original (Our Note: no comment required)
5. You can buy it with confidence (Our Note: No need to send in the clowns****, everybody’s already laughing)
We know Hardweejun follows and reads the website, because he quotes from it and refers to it in various of his listings. He also says he is an over 20 year collector of R. Lalique.
All of the model pages on the site for the dark blue round flask form R. Lalique Perfume Bottles for Worth state the following:
Also Note: Any bottle with the molded word CREATION on the underside is a post-war copy.
Also Note: Examples with metal coated necks and/or rims will also be post-war copies.
You can see all those models at Rene Lalique’s Worth Perfume Bottles.
If anyone thinks any of the numbered statements from the listing accurately reflects what is true about this bottle, please leave a comment here and we will promptly and cheerfully make corrections of any errors. And for this entire article, if anyone thinks we have anything wrong…. cheerful corrections will be made if we screwed something up.
Post Publication Update: The bottle did not sell, but has been re-listed. Two points to make, one old, one new. The old point: Pierre makes the following statement/claim in the old and new listings: This “Dans la Nuit” bottle is repertoried and photographed in the large Marcilhac book, the unofficial; “Lalique Bible” on page 951 of the French 2010 edition under reference “Worth 2″ (photo 8). The signature, R LALIQUE, is under the base (photo 7).” The first sentence is just made-up. There is no Dans La Nuit bottle pictured where he says, that has a silvered neck or the phrase R. LALIQUE CREATION on the underside. That’s because Rene Lalique did not design or produce a silver necked “CREATION” bottle or ANY “CREATION” bottle for Worth. So obviously “This” bottle is not repertoried or photographed anywhere in the entire book he cites. The 2nd point is humorous. Apparently you can no longer buy the bottle with confidence. The phrase “You can buy it with confidence” has been removed from the end of the description in the re-listing. End of Update.
And in case you thought maybe the above listing was just a one-off error of some kind totally filled with good intentions, check out this gem:
Rene Lalique 1929: Smallest Bottle (Version 3) for Worth’s “Je Reviens” 3″. Updated 7-4-21 to delete link to Ebay listing that no longer works.
False statement: Here is one from around 1929 (Our Note: The stopper did not exist in 1929)
False statement: Original or Reproduction: Original (Our Note: Ditto)
False statement – This combines a false statement with a ridiculous story: Also, and although this was the launching year (Our note – he is referring to 1929), he insisted that Lalique develop a softer material for the stopper as he feared that the rare blue marble envisioned would prove too expensive. This was born the bakelite stopper, one of the World’s first plastics 15 years before but sufficiently down in price to be affordable while looking just as good and also achievable in any color, which had not been possible before. (Our Note: Knowing the stopper on this bottle did not exist in 1929, this story is made-up out of whole cloth*****. The Ebay listing says the item location is New York, but it’s more likely to ship from Fantasy Island******.)
The fact that Pierre did not show a picture of the signature or mention anywhere in the listing what the signature says, we’d bet our bottom dollar******* it’s some version of the post-war modern Lalique France signature. Consciousness of Guilt Rides Again! Post Publication Update: The Je Reviens bottle sold for $60. All this for $60 … less Ebay commissions? Really? End of Update.
Be careful out there!! But remember, it’s not what the seller says or doesn’t say. It’s what you know. The more you know the better off you are and the better off you will be in building your R. Lalique collection.
* Hits just keep on coming: We are using this expression in the sarcastic sense, in the same way it was used by Tom Cruise in the movie A Few Good Men. When he was informed by his co-star whom he seriously disliked and had no control over: “I’m going to Cuba with you tomorrow”, he replied “And the hits just keep on coming”.
** Rife means an abundance of something usually undesirable or harmful.
*** Consciousness of Guilt is a concept in the U.S. court system where inferences can be drawn from a person’s own actions. We are using the phrase here to make the point that he did things that had the effect of hiding or obscuring accurate and relevant information that would have contradicted the false statements in the listings.
**** Send in the clowns: In the 19th and 20th centuries when circuses were a huge entertainment spectacle in many parts of the world, whenever tragedy struck during a performance (like the high wire guy fell off the wire – splat), the management would give the order “Send in the clowns!” to distract the audience and get the laughing going.
***** Made-up out of whole cloth: From https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/ “To fabricate something entirely fictional or utterly false and not based on reality at all.” And from “https://grammarist.com/idiom/out-of-whole-cloth/ “Out of whole cloth describes something that is untrue and has no grounding in the facts.” Our Note: You also hear it as “cut from whole cloth”.
****** Fantasy Island: The setting for the late 70’s/early 80’s TV fantasy show starring Ricardo Montalbán and Hervé Villechaize.
******* Bottom dollar is your last dollar.
It can be a dangerous world out there for online purchasers of R. Lalique. Our experience is that most people are honest, but there are always a few rotten apples to be avoided.
All the way back in in 2014 we wrote an article titled: Pierre Leblache – Hardweejun On Ebay – Buyer Beware. And we updated it a couple of times over the years.
But the hits just keep coming* and we decided it’s time to refresh and publicize part of the litany of false statements and false claims that characterize so many of his sales efforts with regard to various “R. Lalique” items. Keep in mind just as bank robbers don’t rob every bank they drive by, every single listing by Hardweejun may not contain false representations about the item he’s selling. But rest assured there is plenty of material out there.
Basically this guy just makes stuff up and in an apparent attempt to appear erudite tells longwinded stories about history that have so many fantasy or undocumented aspects we don’t have the time to catalogue the whole mess. All of this of course is to make a few dollars off some uninformed buyer of an “R. Lalique” item in various online sales listings, many of which are rife** with false representations. And he’s doing all this to get a couple of hundred bucks. We don’t know what his hourly rate is, but with the time involved in writing up some of this nonsense, doing the photos, and then creating the Ebay listing it seems like a low-return scam. Certainly a lot less than those 30 pieces of silver you’ve heard tell about.
Let’s get right to a couple specific examples:
Rene Lalique 1924: First Blue Bottle for Worth’s “Dans La Nuit” 5 1/2″. Signed. Updated 7-4-21 to delete link to Ebay listing that no longer works.
So obviousy what he is selling is post-war (the Utts say 1985) modern copy (with changes you might notice in the picture), of what was originally an R. Lalique design. The bottle is marked R. Lalique CREATION to the underside. We don’t even know who Worth had make it for them. Oh, and there is the metal neck collar that even though not red, would normally trigger a red alert.
Keeping the preceding in mind about what he is actually selling, let’s review some of his representations:
1. An original from between 1924 and 1930. (Our Note: An original from the around the 1980’s and transported back in time by the seller)
2. It is also the first (only?) time that Lalique sculpted into the bottle’s face the words “EAU DE TOILETTE” (Our Note: Lalique was long dead before anything was “sculpted” into this bottle)
3. signed R LALIQUE underneath (Our Note: Oops, left out that CREATION word that is so blurry in his photo if you don’t know what it says before looking, you likely can’t make it out. That blurry picture was a nice touch as if the camera suddenly stopped working properly. In certain circles they call this kind of activity – the specific omission and the blur – “consciousness of guilt”***. R. LALIQUE CREATION is the modern glassmaker giving credit to Rene Lalique as the original designer.)
4. Original/Reproduction: Original (Our Note: no comment required)
5. You can buy it with confidence (Our Note: No need to send in the clowns****, everybody’s already laughing)
We know Hardweejun follows and reads the website, because he quotes from it and refers to it in various of his listings. He also says he is an over 20 year collector of R. Lalique.
All of the model pages on the site for the dark blue round flask form R. Lalique Perfume Bottles for Worth state the following:
Also Note: Any bottle with the molded word CREATION on the underside is a post-war copy.
Also Note: Examples with metal coated necks and/or rims will also be post-war copies.
You can see all those models at Rene Lalique’s Worth Perfume Bottles.
If anyone thinks any of the numbered statements from the listing accurately reflects what is true about this bottle, please leave a comment here and we will promptly and cheerfully make corrections of any errors. And for this entire article, if anyone thinks we have anything wrong…. cheerful corrections will be made if we screwed something up.
Post Publication Update: The bottle did not sell, but has been re-listed. Two points to make, one old, one new. The old point: Pierre makes the following statement/claim in the old and new listings: This “Dans la Nuit” bottle is repertoried and photographed in the large Marcilhac book, the unofficial; “Lalique Bible” on page 951 of the French 2010 edition under reference “Worth 2″ (photo 8). The signature, R LALIQUE, is under the base (photo 7).” The first sentence is just made-up. There is no Dans La Nuit bottle pictured where he says, that has a silvered neck or the phrase R. LALIQUE CREATION on the underside. That’s because Rene Lalique did not design or produce a silver necked “CREATION” bottle or ANY “CREATION” bottle for Worth. So obviously “This” bottle is not repertoried or photographed anywhere in the entire book he cites. The 2nd point is humorous. Apparently you can no longer buy the bottle with confidence. The phrase “You can buy it with confidence” has been removed from the end of the description in the re-listing. End of Update.
And in case you thought maybe the above listing was just a one-off error of some kind totally filled with good intentions, check out this gem:
Rene Lalique 1929: Smallest Bottle (Version 3) for Worth’s “Je Reviens” 3″. Updated 7-4-21 to delete link to Ebay listing that no longer works.
False statement: Here is one from around 1929 (Our Note: The stopper did not exist in 1929)
False statement: Original or Reproduction: Original (Our Note: Ditto)
False statement – This combines a false statement with a ridiculous story: Also, and although this was the launching year (Our note – he is referring to 1929), he insisted that Lalique develop a softer material for the stopper as he feared that the rare blue marble envisioned would prove too expensive. This was born the bakelite stopper, one of the World’s first plastics 15 years before but sufficiently down in price to be affordable while looking just as good and also achievable in any color, which had not been possible before. (Our Note: Knowing the stopper on this bottle did not exist in 1929, this story is made-up out of whole cloth*****. The Ebay listing says the item location is New York, but it’s more likely to ship from Fantasy Island******.)
The fact that Pierre did not show a picture of the signature or mention anywhere in the listing what the signature says, we’d bet our bottom dollar******* it’s some version of the post-war modern Lalique France signature. Consciousness of Guilt Rides Again! Post Publication Update: The Je Reviens bottle sold for $60. All this for $60 … less Ebay commissions? Really? End of Update.
Be careful out there!! But remember, it’s not what the seller says or doesn’t say. It’s what you know. The more you know the better off you are and the better off you will be in building your R. Lalique collection.
* Hits just keep on coming: We are using this expression in the sarcastic sense, in the same way it was used by Tom Cruise in the movie A Few Good Men. When he was informed by his co-star whom he seriously disliked and had no control over: “I’m going to Cuba with you tomorrow”, he replied “And the hits just keep on coming”.
** Rife means an abundance of something usually undesirable or harmful.
*** Consciousness of Guilt is a concept in the U.S. court system where inferences can be drawn from a person’s own actions. We are using the phrase here to make the point that he did things that had the effect of hiding or obscuring accurate and relevant information that would have contradicted the false statements in the listings.
**** Send in the clowns: In the 19th and 20th centuries when circuses were a huge entertainment spectacle in many parts of the world, whenever tragedy struck during a performance (like the high wire guy fell off the wire – splat), the management would give the order “Send in the clowns!” to distract the audience and get the laughing going.
***** Made-up out of whole cloth: From https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/ “To fabricate something entirely fictional or utterly false and not based on reality at all.” And from “https://grammarist.com/idiom/out-of-whole-cloth/ “Out of whole cloth describes something that is untrue and has no grounding in the facts.” Our Note: You also hear it as “cut from whole cloth”.
****** Fantasy Island: The setting for the late 70’s/early 80’s TV fantasy show starring Ricardo Montalbán and Hervé Villechaize.
******* Bottom dollar is your last dollar.
The Value Of R. Lalique Vases With Holes …. And Cracks
January 29th, 2021
The bottom line is: A typical collector should never buy a vase with a hole in it to add to their collection. Never Ever. Never Never. And while we’re writing that never never thing, it applies to cracks too. And about cracks, we mean any crack of any size anywhere on the vase. Cracks reflect light, so it’s easy to differentiate them from wandering press marks made when the piece was molded. And as long as we’re rolling, you also don’t want any vase whose description includes the word glue or anything to do with pieces being re-attached. You’re already in Peter Pan’s neighborhood* with a crack, so broken-off and re-attached is basically La-la Land**.
Back to holes, here are our seemingly random hole thoughts that will be tied together neatly at the end as they just were at the beginning.
If the holey nature of the vase is specified by the seller, most condition reports on these religious objects usually end with a phrase like “otherwise in excellent condition”.
Condition Report: Part of the rim is missing and the part that remains has several large chips and a hard to see hairline crack. There is an old well-done staple repair to the body and a professionally drilled hole in the center of the underside. Otherwise in excellent condition.
And for a lot of vases that are still part of an assembled lamp, the seller doesn’t even mention the good news about the hole.
A few housekeeping matters and corner cases should be cleared-up before we talk money.
Lalique did sell a small group of vases as reflector lamps, and those had a pencil sized hole drilled just above the base on the outside of the vase.
Unless that side-hole vase comes as an original lamp, with all the original parts, the market treats it the same as the vases with the big hole in the middle of the bottom. And even if you had a complete original reflector lamp, it would still be a tough sell.
And of course we have seen some vases with the little pencil hole on the side that were later drilled by someone else.
We saw just such a vase up in the northeast at a major auction house some years back. It creatively had a thick paint-like covering around the underside and outside of the base (it wasn’t red paint but still….. red alert, right?) The specialist told us that the vase was being deaccessioned (a foofy*** synonym of “dumped”) by a museum. She said the material was dried out sticky stuff that was the museum’s practice to apply to glass pieces to hold them in place in their display. Yea sure. The vase was like one of those scratch-off lottery cards except with the lottery card when you scratch off the coating, you have a slim chance to win. Who could have guessed that of course there was a hole under the paint as found out by the lucky buyer who paid somewhere around the $20,000 full retail value of the non-holey version of the vase.
Most lamps made from vases were done for and by retailers and others looking to add value and make more money. It was a common practice in the 20’s. Lalique did not sell lamps made from vases with big holes in the underside.
Finally, for truly unique objects, such as a Cire Perdue Vase, there would still be a good (just likely nowhere near as good) market for the vase.
And you have to consider that there are some realistic non-collection reasons for someone to buy such a vase. They may just like the lamp made with a good-looking vase and be happy to own it as a decorative object for pennies on the dollar. A museum looking to stretch the acquisition budget can get somewhere around 5 to 15 times as many vases for the same investment as 1 good vase, and of course the people seeing the vases at the museum will not see the holes. A buyer may not be able to afford their favorite R. Lalique vase and going to church is the only way to get one.
If it weren’t for these corner case reasons, there would be no market at all for these things. So, as long as you have your eyes wide-open while praying for a miracle, you don’t overpay (we’re getting to that), you don’t have an expectation of a profit, and you know finding a buyer when the time comes will be harder than for “whole” pieces, there’s nothing wrong with buying one of these shiny objects.
What does eyes wide-open mean? This is an important question because for example collectors familiar with other collecting fields that don’t care about pot holes may not realize just how big the financial hit will be. And beginners or newer collectors dealing with major and reputable auction houses may not realize the value hit of that fully disclosed hole and pay some ridiculous price that can never be recovered. And adding insult to injury unless you can find the right plastic plug at Ace Hardware, you can’t even put real flowers in your new acquisition. That’s not a small point. Anyone tries to tell you any reason to buy a vase with a hole in it for your collection, let them know their reason doesn’t hold water****!
So here it is:
1. The re-sale market is extremely limited for these items. There just aren’t a lot of people chasing damaged goods.
2. When you do find your buyer, it won’t be a serious collector.
3. All other factors being equal, the market value of these vases is usually around 10% to 15% of the value of an example of the exact same vase that can hold water. These estimates only apply to commercial vases that if perfect would be valued at less than $20,000 in the market at the time. For higher value vases, the percentages would drop as the value rises. And in any event, if it’s not an attractive colored vase that displays well, the percentage can be much less, or the vase can be basically unsalable.
4. Think of that hole as an open drain and imagine your purchase price being flushed down it. So if you are looking for appreciation over time, or just hoping to be able to get your money back when the time comes, you may be disappointed.
The bottom line: A typical collector should never buy a vase with a hole in it to add to their collection. Never Ever. Never Never. And the same applies to cracked pieces, and to pieces that have gone to pieces*****.
* Peter Pan’s neighborhood is Neverland!
** La-la Land from the American Heritage Dictionary: A state of mind characterized by a frivolous or unrealistic lack of seriousness. From Merriam-Webster: A euphoric, dreamlike mental state detached from the harsher realities of life. And humorously at both Dictionary.com and Merriam-Webster.com the No. 2 definition for La-la Land is a nickname for Los Angeles (L.A.) California. Who could have guessed that?
*** Foofy is an American slang adjective meaning excessively puffed-up with the intention of making something seem more meaningful, serious, or important than it really is. Consider this: Honey, I’m going to deaccession my cracked coffee cup today. Where’s the garbage can?
**** Doesn’t hold water is an expression that means a statement, argument, reason, or story is false, bad, unreal, flawed, or unsound. From https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hold-water: The jury convicted her because her story just didn’t hold water. Our note: If her story did hold water, it would be the opposite of all the preceding. No one knows the origin of the expression but consider Jeremiah 2:13 from the Old Testament: My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water.
***** Gone to pieces or Go to pieces from https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com: 1. To fall apart into many pieces (the vase …… went to pieces). 2. To become nonfunctional (his plan went to pieces). 3. To have a mental collapse or experience a mental or emotional breakdown. Our note: No 3. is what can happen to someone when they realize all their No. 1 and No. 2 acquisitions are nearly or totally worthless. 🙂
The bottom line is: A typical collector should never buy a vase with a hole in it to add to their collection. Never Ever. Never Never. And while we’re writing that never never thing, it applies to cracks too. And about cracks, we mean any crack of any size anywhere on the vase. Cracks reflect light, so it’s easy to differentiate them from wandering press marks made when the piece was molded. And as long as we’re rolling, you also don’t want any vase whose description includes the word glue or anything to do with pieces being re-attached. You’re already in Peter Pan’s neighborhood* with a crack, so broken-off and re-attached is basically La-la Land**.
Back to holes, here are our seemingly random hole thoughts that will be tied together neatly at the end as they just were at the beginning.
If the holey nature of the vase is specified by the seller, most condition reports on these religious objects usually end with a phrase like “otherwise in excellent condition”.
Condition Report: Part of the rim is missing and the part that remains has several large chips and a hard to see hairline crack. There is an old well-done staple repair to the body and a professionally drilled hole in the center of the underside. Otherwise in excellent condition.
And for a lot of vases that are still part of an assembled lamp, the seller doesn’t even mention the good news about the hole.
A few housekeeping matters and corner cases should be cleared-up before we talk money.
Lalique did sell a small group of vases as reflector lamps, and those had a pencil sized hole drilled just above the base on the outside of the vase.
Unless that side-hole vase comes as an original lamp, with all the original parts, the market treats it the same as the vases with the big hole in the middle of the bottom. And even if you had a complete original reflector lamp, it would still be a tough sell.
And of course we have seen some vases with the little pencil hole on the side that were later drilled by someone else.
We saw just such a vase up in the northeast at a major auction house some years back. It creatively had a thick paint-like covering around the underside and outside of the base (it wasn’t red paint but still….. red alert, right?) The specialist told us that the vase was being deaccessioned (a foofy*** synonym of “dumped”) by a museum. She said the material was dried out sticky stuff that was the museum’s practice to apply to glass pieces to hold them in place in their display. Yea sure. The vase was like one of those scratch-off lottery cards except with the lottery card when you scratch off the coating, you have a slim chance to win. Who could have guessed that of course there was a hole under the paint as found out by the lucky buyer who paid somewhere around the $20,000 full retail value of the non-holey version of the vase.
Most lamps made from vases were done for and by retailers and others looking to add value and make more money. It was a common practice in the 20’s. Lalique did not sell lamps made from vases with big holes in the underside.
Finally, for truly unique objects, such as a Cire Perdue Vase, there would still be a good (just likely nowhere near as good) market for the vase.
And you have to consider that there are some realistic non-collection reasons for someone to buy such a vase. They may just like the lamp made with a good-looking vase and be happy to own it as a decorative object for pennies on the dollar. A museum looking to stretch the acquisition budget can get somewhere around 5 to 15 times as many vases for the same investment as 1 good vase, and of course the people seeing the vases at the museum will not see the holes. A buyer may not be able to afford their favorite R. Lalique vase and going to church is the only way to get one.
If it weren’t for these corner case reasons, there would be no market at all for these things. So, as long as you have your eyes wide-open while praying for a miracle, you don’t overpay (we’re getting to that), you don’t have an expectation of a profit, and you know finding a buyer when the time comes will be harder than for “whole” pieces, there’s nothing wrong with buying one of these shiny objects.
What does eyes wide-open mean? This is an important question because for example collectors familiar with other collecting fields that don’t care about pot holes may not realize just how big the financial hit will be. And beginners or newer collectors dealing with major and reputable auction houses may not realize the value hit of that fully disclosed hole and pay some ridiculous price that can never be recovered. And adding insult to injury unless you can find the right plastic plug at Ace Hardware, you can’t even put real flowers in your new acquisition. That’s not a small point. Anyone tries to tell you any reason to buy a vase with a hole in it for your collection, let them know their reason doesn’t hold water****!
So here it is:
1. The re-sale market is extremely limited for these items. There just aren’t a lot of people chasing damaged goods.
2. When you do find your buyer, it won’t be a serious collector.
3. All other factors being equal, the market value of these vases is usually around 10% to 15% of the value of an example of the exact same vase that can hold water. These estimates only apply to commercial vases that if perfect would be valued at less than $20,000 in the market at the time. For higher value vases, the percentages would drop as the value rises. And in any event, if it’s not an attractive colored vase that displays well, the percentage can be much less, or the vase can be basically unsalable.
4. Think of that hole as an open drain and imagine your purchase price being flushed down it. So if you are looking for appreciation over time, or just hoping to be able to get your money back when the time comes, you may be disappointed.
The bottom line: A typical collector should never buy a vase with a hole in it to add to their collection. Never Ever. Never Never. And the same applies to cracked pieces, and to pieces that have gone to pieces*****.
* Peter Pan’s neighborhood is Neverland!
** La-la Land from the American Heritage Dictionary: A state of mind characterized by a frivolous or unrealistic lack of seriousness. From Merriam-Webster: A euphoric, dreamlike mental state detached from the harsher realities of life. And humorously at both Dictionary.com and Merriam-Webster.com the No. 2 definition for La-la Land is a nickname for Los Angeles (L.A.) California. Who could have guessed that?
*** Foofy is an American slang adjective meaning excessively puffed-up with the intention of making something seem more meaningful, serious, or important than it really is. Consider this: Honey, I’m going to deaccession my cracked coffee cup today. Where’s the garbage can?
**** Doesn’t hold water is an expression that means a statement, argument, reason, or story is false, bad, unreal, flawed, or unsound. From https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hold-water: The jury convicted her because her story just didn’t hold water. Our note: If her story did hold water, it would be the opposite of all the preceding. No one knows the origin of the expression but consider Jeremiah 2:13 from the Old Testament: My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water.
***** Gone to pieces or Go to pieces from https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com: 1. To fall apart into many pieces (the vase …… went to pieces). 2. To become nonfunctional (his plan went to pieces). 3. To have a mental collapse or experience a mental or emotional breakdown. Our note: No 3. is what can happen to someone when they realize all their No. 1 and No. 2 acquisitions are nearly or totally worthless. 🙂
Inept R. Lalique Forger
November 9th, 2019
We see a lot of stuff as time goes by. But this one is too humorous to pass up. Here you have an Avallon Vase that was created pre-war in glass, and reproduced after the war in leaded crystal. It appears someone decided to age this Avallon Vase a bit and add an R. Lalique France signature. And they didn’t do too bad of a job… at least not embarrassingly bad. But it seems they failed to remove the original Lalique France signature! Way too funny. See for yourself.
Be careful out there!
We see a lot of stuff as time goes by. But this one is too humorous to pass up. Here you have an Avallon Vase that was created pre-war in glass, and reproduced after the war in leaded crystal. It appears someone decided to age this Avallon Vase a bit and add an R. Lalique France signature. And they didn’t do too bad of a job… at least not embarrassingly bad. But it seems they failed to remove the original Lalique France signature! Way too funny. See for yourself.
Be careful out there!
The Czech Ring Box Is Outed – Not R. Lalique Boutons De Fleur
June 27th, 2019
First, a little bit of background on what was a long wait.
Here at World Headquarters, we have a list. In the course of things, we can’t chase everything down in an instant, so as questions arise or specific stuff pops up that might cause a raised eyebrow with all the people that help out with the site, some stuff just gets put on the list. And we wait.
Sometimes the wait is a few weeks or a few months. Sometimes it’s just a phone call or can take a few years. Sometimes it’s longer. For just one small example, in 2008 we wrote an article about an R. Lalique Fake “Seal” that had been sold to a collector. We were pretty sure there was no such authentic seal :), but we didn’t know exactly what it really was. The purchase was from a “reputable” regular dealer in R. Lalique. It wasn’t until 2017 that we were able to definitively identify the “seal” as a stopper to a specific perfume bottle made by an American glass company when one of the great volunteers that help out on the site came across the bottle. 9 years later, what the heck.
Anyway, for why we are rambling, back around 2011 a brown patinated two-part egg shaped flower motif Ring Box sporting a double row of facets appeared in the literature as R. Lalique. And it was also appearing at well known auction houses. And crazy enough, the money was pretty big. Reports we received put it selling with a ring in 2011 at €15,000 hammer, another example came in 2012 with sepia patina and a ring for €9500, and one with a brown patina and a ring went all-in in 2014 for about $20,000.
All the while, we had never had our hands on one of these boxes, but we weren’t going to throw away 5 figures to prove ourselves right. And with those prices, actual reputable sellers, and the literature, we decided to keep an open mind (no matter how slightly) that we might be mistaken, even though it’s true that if you listened closely enough when seeing a photo, you could hear the box whispering “Czech, Czech, Czech”. So we waited.
Opportunity Knocks!
Then back in April 2019 at a small online house sale in Columbus Ohio, appears a mixed lot with 3 items: A modern base to an oil & vinegar set, an R. Lalique Feuilles Menu Holder, and there on the left of the photo was a hazy shaped depiction of THE ring box. It was faintly whispering. Our only question was how the auction knew to describe it as “Ingrid Crystal”.
Not being one of those auctions with stuff like a live auctioneer or live bidding, and with no way to get questions answered, we waited. In the end our winning bid was $45 plus shipping across country, around $65 all-in! Yippee! And in due course the goods appeared in the daily shuffle of deliveries piling up inside the main entrance.
Other new ground was broken with this purchase, because it’s a pretty hard rule with auctions of R. Lalique that if we are planning on bidding on something R. Lalique at auction for ourselves or on behalf of anyone else, we list that auction on the website and compete with everybody else. And in this case, the Feuilles Menu holder was surely an authentic piece of R. Lalique. But given our altruistic* intent on this one, not wanting to throw away thousands of dollars on a Czech box, and wanting to keep another example of this thing out of circulation, we were not exactly quick in listing it on the site.
In due time the delivery was un-packed, and it took several minutes with just the right light to see the answer to the Ingrid I.D. The bottom was signed INGRID Czecho-Slovakia as shown in the photo here. After that it was easy to find the right documentation through the Czech glass links you can find in the Sources of Fakes section of the website. And we found many examples of the same signature with the same issue of getting the light just right and at the right angle on other Ingrid items. We’ve included 2 photos of the underside of one of the ubiquitous green malachite looking perfume bottles that appeared recently at auction. The two green photos shown here are of the same underside of the same bottle. One looks blank; the other has the right lighting and angle of photo to reveal the signature.
The other thing that everybody ignored about this box was the most obvious. Can you imagine walking into the Lalique shop in Paris in the 1932 and seeing a double faceted brown patinated box holding a green or blue ring of entirely different design? That incongruous presentation would have stuck out like a sore thumb.
And did you notice in the Ingrid catalogue photo shown above that in-between the two ring boxes are two rings? Buckle up if you paid 5 figures for an unsigned or suspiciously signed ring that looks just like one of those! There may be turbulence ahead. See the Fleurs-2 and Fleurs-3 Rings.******
You can see all the previously mentioned sales on the Czech Ingrid Bouton De Fleur model page we’ve left up in the Box Category of the R. Lalique Catalogue so interested persons can find and properly identify their box. Obviously some are floating about with R. Lalique signatures or missing Ingrid signatures. And anyone who insists this is an R. Lalique Box, we will make you a real cheap deal compared to those auction prices on the one we have 🙂 … NOT!
Also, this is probably a good time to mention for the umpteenth** time that typical collectors should avoid unsigned and undocumented pieces. There is an amazing selection of great R. Lalique items out there. Over 99% of those pieces are properly signed and fully documented. What’s the point? And collectors should trust their instincts. If it feels like a fish, swims like a fish, looks like a fish, and smells like a fish ……………. something may be fishy***.
Another point to keep in mind. The Ingrid line of Czech glass was not made with the intent to deceive anyone. The Czechs have a rich and centuries old glassmaking tradition. A few designers did jump on the emerging 20th century consumer glass bandwagon with pieces in the Lalique style. But the great early designers in this area such as Heinrich Hoffmann and Curt Schlevogt**** had zero reason to deceive anyone. Schlevogt, the creator of the Ingrid pieces had the Ingrid signature proudly placed on the box we bought. It’s only the later representation that this model is R. Lalique, and/or the removal of the Ingrid signature and/or the addition of a phony R. Lalique signature, that makes one of these boxes problematic in the R. Lalique marketplace. They are less valuable but not problematic at all in the proper context.
And lest we forget, there is a 2nd blue glass Boutons De Fleur Box for which we have never seen a scintilla of documentation. It’s a bit more convincing than this Czech box (not a high hurdle really), it has a much cleaner yet more detailed design, and there is a ring that matches it in both color and decoration. But it’s un-documented nonetheless. Who knows what future house sales in America’s heartland may uncover!
And as is our MO*****, if anyone out there thinks we got anything wrong in this article, we will be happy to hear from you, and we will promptly and cheerfully correct any factual inaccuracies. So please no complaints about run-on sentences, our mangling of the English language, made-up words, or any of the numerous grammatical errors. To paraphrase Dragnet’s Joe Friday “Just the facts ma’am.”
*Altruistic means to show an unselfish concern for others ………as we break our elbows patting ourselves on the back.
**Umteenth or Umpteenth is a real word! It’s the last in a never-ending or indefinitely long series or repetition. Think about a parent saying to their kid: “This is the umpteenth time I’ve told you to straighten-up your room.”
***Something is fishy: An expression that can be traced to before the Civil War. It has come to mean that something is suspicious or not right. Think of a good-looking fish at the market that when you get close enough and pick it up you find it’s really slimy or slippery (a word that has its own alternate related meaning) and has started to smell.
****Curt Schlevogt worked for Hoffmann and in 1928 married Hoffmann’s daughter Charlotte. Charlotte died in childbirth giving birth to their daughter Ingrid, after whom his first collection of glass (introduced and exhibited in 1934) was named.
*****MO (pronounced by saying the names of letters “Em Oh”) is an abbreviation for the Latin phrase Modus Operandi. It’s the typical mode or method of operation; how one usually does things. In the current culture, “this is how we roll” would be a comparable expression.
******Fleurs-2 and Fluers-3 Rings: These 2 links were added in September 2019.
First, a little bit of background on what was a long wait.
Here at World Headquarters, we have a list. In the course of things, we can’t chase everything down in an instant, so as questions arise or specific stuff pops up that might cause a raised eyebrow with all the people that help out with the site, some stuff just gets put on the list. And we wait.
Sometimes the wait is a few weeks or a few months. Sometimes it’s just a phone call or can take a few years. Sometimes it’s longer. For just one small example, in 2008 we wrote an article about an R. Lalique Fake “Seal” that had been sold to a collector. We were pretty sure there was no such authentic seal :), but we didn’t know exactly what it really was. The purchase was from a “reputable” regular dealer in R. Lalique. It wasn’t until 2017 that we were able to definitively identify the “seal” as a stopper to a specific perfume bottle made by an American glass company when one of the great volunteers that help out on the site came across the bottle. 9 years later, what the heck.
Anyway, for why we are rambling, back around 2011 a brown patinated two-part egg shaped flower motif Ring Box sporting a double row of facets appeared in the literature as R. Lalique. And it was also appearing at well known auction houses. And crazy enough, the money was pretty big. Reports we received put it selling with a ring in 2011 at €15,000 hammer, another example came in 2012 with sepia patina and a ring for €9500, and one with a brown patina and a ring went all-in in 2014 for about $20,000.
All the while, we had never had our hands on one of these boxes, but we weren’t going to throw away 5 figures to prove ourselves right. And with those prices, actual reputable sellers, and the literature, we decided to keep an open mind (no matter how slightly) that we might be mistaken, even though it’s true that if you listened closely enough when seeing a photo, you could hear the box whispering “Czech, Czech, Czech”. So we waited.
Opportunity Knocks!
Then back in April 2019 at a small online house sale in Columbus Ohio, appears a mixed lot with 3 items: A modern base to an oil & vinegar set, an R. Lalique Feuilles Menu Holder, and there on the left of the photo was a hazy shaped depiction of THE ring box. It was faintly whispering. Our only question was how the auction knew to describe it as “Ingrid Crystal”.
Not being one of those auctions with stuff like a live auctioneer or live bidding, and with no way to get questions answered, we waited. In the end our winning bid was $45 plus shipping across country, around $65 all-in! Yippee! And in due course the goods appeared in the daily shuffle of deliveries piling up inside the main entrance.
Other new ground was broken with this purchase, because it’s a pretty hard rule with auctions of R. Lalique that if we are planning on bidding on something R. Lalique at auction for ourselves or on behalf of anyone else, we list that auction on the website and compete with everybody else. And in this case, the Feuilles Menu holder was surely an authentic piece of R. Lalique. But given our altruistic* intent on this one, not wanting to throw away thousands of dollars on a Czech box, and wanting to keep another example of this thing out of circulation, we were not exactly quick in listing it on the site.
In due time the delivery was un-packed, and it took several minutes with just the right light to see the answer to the Ingrid I.D. The bottom was signed INGRID Czecho-Slovakia as shown in the photo here. After that it was easy to find the right documentation through the Czech glass links you can find in the Sources of Fakes section of the website. And we found many examples of the same signature with the same issue of getting the light just right and at the right angle on other Ingrid items. We’ve included 2 photos of the underside of one of the ubiquitous green malachite looking perfume bottles that appeared recently at auction. The two green photos shown here are of the same underside of the same bottle. One looks blank; the other has the right lighting and angle of photo to reveal the signature.
The other thing that everybody ignored about this box was the most obvious. Can you imagine walking into the Lalique shop in Paris in the 1932 and seeing a double faceted brown patinated box holding a green or blue ring of entirely different design? That incongruous presentation would have stuck out like a sore thumb.
And did you notice in the Ingrid catalogue photo shown above that in-between the two ring boxes are two rings? Buckle up if you paid 5 figures for an unsigned or suspiciously signed ring that looks just like one of those! There may be turbulence ahead. See the Fleurs-2 and Fleurs-3 Rings.******
You can see all the previously mentioned sales on the Czech Ingrid Bouton De Fleur model page we’ve left up in the Box Category of the R. Lalique Catalogue so interested persons can find and properly identify their box. Obviously some are floating about with R. Lalique signatures or missing Ingrid signatures. And anyone who insists this is an R. Lalique Box, we will make you a real cheap deal compared to those auction prices on the one we have 🙂 … NOT!
Also, this is probably a good time to mention for the umpteenth** time that typical collectors should avoid unsigned and undocumented pieces. There is an amazing selection of great R. Lalique items out there. Over 99% of those pieces are properly signed and fully documented. What’s the point? And collectors should trust their instincts. If it feels like a fish, swims like a fish, looks like a fish, and smells like a fish ……………. something may be fishy***.
Another point to keep in mind. The Ingrid line of Czech glass was not made with the intent to deceive anyone. The Czechs have a rich and centuries old glassmaking tradition. A few designers did jump on the emerging 20th century consumer glass bandwagon with pieces in the Lalique style. But the great early designers in this area such as Heinrich Hoffmann and Curt Schlevogt**** had zero reason to deceive anyone. Schlevogt, the creator of the Ingrid pieces had the Ingrid signature proudly placed on the box we bought. It’s only the later representation that this model is R. Lalique, and/or the removal of the Ingrid signature and/or the addition of a phony R. Lalique signature, that makes one of these boxes problematic in the R. Lalique marketplace. They are less valuable but not problematic at all in the proper context.
And lest we forget, there is a 2nd blue glass Boutons De Fleur Box for which we have never seen a scintilla of documentation. It’s a bit more convincing than this Czech box (not a high hurdle really), it has a much cleaner yet more detailed design, and there is a ring that matches it in both color and decoration. But it’s un-documented nonetheless. Who knows what future house sales in America’s heartland may uncover!
And as is our MO*****, if anyone out there thinks we got anything wrong in this article, we will be happy to hear from you, and we will promptly and cheerfully correct any factual inaccuracies. So please no complaints about run-on sentences, our mangling of the English language, made-up words, or any of the numerous grammatical errors. To paraphrase Dragnet’s Joe Friday “Just the facts ma’am.”
*Altruistic means to show an unselfish concern for others ………as we break our elbows patting ourselves on the back.
**Umteenth or Umpteenth is a real word! It’s the last in a never-ending or indefinitely long series or repetition. Think about a parent saying to their kid: “This is the umpteenth time I’ve told you to straighten-up your room.”
***Something is fishy: An expression that can be traced to before the Civil War. It has come to mean that something is suspicious or not right. Think of a good-looking fish at the market that when you get close enough and pick it up you find it’s really slimy or slippery (a word that has its own alternate related meaning) and has started to smell.
****Curt Schlevogt worked for Hoffmann and in 1928 married Hoffmann’s daughter Charlotte. Charlotte died in childbirth giving birth to their daughter Ingrid, after whom his first collection of glass (introduced and exhibited in 1934) was named.
*****MO (pronounced by saying the names of letters “Em Oh”) is an abbreviation for the Latin phrase Modus Operandi. It’s the typical mode or method of operation; how one usually does things. In the current culture, “this is how we roll” would be a comparable expression.
******Fleurs-2 and Fluers-3 Rings: These 2 links were added in September 2019.
The Czech Forest Vase – A Common R. Lalique Forgery
October 11th, 2017
The Czech Forest Vase is one of the most often seen vases with a forged R. Lalique Signature. But in last week’s mail came an inquiry from a purchaser who had bought the vase on hope alone without even the phony signature in place. The correspondence speaks for itself. **
Dear Madam or Sir,
I bought this vase on a budget resolution and I am not sure if this is a
real vase from R. Lalique.
It would be great if you can help me out.
The vase has no signature or a mark at the bottom. The weight is 3267 Grams.
On the floor of the vase there are strong traces of use.
I was searching your website and I did find this vase. The model looks
like a fake one, but the color is different.
I am a collector and it would be great if you could tell me more about it.
Attached you will find some pictures of the vase.
Thank you in advance for your effort.
Kind regards from Stuttgart,
Hopeful Buyer
Our reply:
Hello Hopeful Buyer. Thanks for contacting us.
The vase in your photos (1 is attached to this reply) is a Czech forest vase.
You can see it in a Czech glass catalogue at this link in the Sources of Fakes section of the website:
Also here is an Ebay search for the phrase Czech Forest Vase where you can see some for sale:
Czech Forest Vases For Sale On Ebay
And another Ebay search to see some that actually sold:
Sold Czech Forest Vases On Ebay
General Rule: Do not buy any piece of “R. Lalique” that is not signed and documented.
Best Regards,
RLalique.com
And the buyer’s follow-up:
Dear RLalique.com,
Thank you for your Mail. You have a great website!
The next time I will be more careful.
Kind regards
Hopeful Buyer
Obviously the buyer should have checked (there is a bad pun in there somewhere) the website before the purchase and not after 🙂
** The emails were cleaned up slightly to remove personal info, compact the content, and correct errors/typos etc.
The Czech Forest Vase is one of the most often seen vases with a forged R. Lalique Signature. But in last week’s mail came an inquiry from a purchaser who had bought the vase on hope alone without even the phony signature in place. The correspondence speaks for itself. **
Dear Madam or Sir,
I bought this vase on a budget resolution and I am not sure if this is a
real vase from R. Lalique.
It would be great if you can help me out.
The vase has no signature or a mark at the bottom. The weight is 3267 Grams.
On the floor of the vase there are strong traces of use.
I was searching your website and I did find this vase. The model looks
like a fake one, but the color is different.
I am a collector and it would be great if you could tell me more about it.
Attached you will find some pictures of the vase.
Thank you in advance for your effort.
Kind regards from Stuttgart,
Hopeful Buyer
Our reply:
Hello Hopeful Buyer. Thanks for contacting us.
The vase in your photos (1 is attached to this reply) is a Czech forest vase.
You can see it in a Czech glass catalogue at this link in the Sources of Fakes section of the website:
Also here is an Ebay search for the phrase Czech Forest Vase where you can see some for sale:
Czech Forest Vases For Sale On Ebay
And another Ebay search to see some that actually sold:
Sold Czech Forest Vases On Ebay
General Rule: Do not buy any piece of “R. Lalique” that is not signed and documented.
Best Regards,
RLalique.com
And the buyer’s follow-up:
Dear RLalique.com,
Thank you for your Mail. You have a great website!
The next time I will be more careful.
Kind regards
Hopeful Buyer
Obviously the buyer should have checked (there is a bad pun in there somewhere) the website before the purchase and not after 🙂
** The emails were cleaned up slightly to remove personal info, compact the content, and correct errors/typos etc.
Rago Auctions Presents Another Great R. Lalique Collection September 22nd!
September 20th, 2017
Post-Sale Update:
The short version: What A Great Sale!
The rest of the story:
68 lots were offered at the auction, one of which was a small book lot that sold. Of the remaining 67 lots, all of which were R. Lalique items, 65 sold and 2 remained unsold. The overall sale rate for all lots in the auction was over 97% based on the number of lots, and over 99% based on the estimates, the 2 no-sales being relatively low value items.
Against a total estimate range of $253,300 to $362,700, the hammer prices of $375,400 exceeded the high estimate, and the total sale including the buyers premium of $469,250 was well outside the high estimate. The top seller was Lot 1, the Tortues Vase in alexandrite glass that made $30,000 all-in. On the same basis 2nd place at $25,000 went to Lot 7, the red Escargot Vase; in 3rd place was the blue glass Martin-Pêcheurs Vase as Lot 5 at $23,750; and in 4th place was the Lot 3 amber Serpent Vase for $20,000. The average price for the 66 sold lots was $7,110.
It was yet another amazingly successful sale for the works of Rene Lalique at Rago. The high selling lot accounted for only about 6% of the sale total. And the depth of interest revealed itself in the large number of bidders with Rago reporting over 2 dozen buyers from 5 different continents.
End of Post-Sale Update.
Hot on the heels of its highly successful R. Lalique Solana Collection sale in May of this year, RagoArts in Lambertville New Jersey is bringing yet another decades old single owner collection to auction on Friday September 22nd, 2017. The Lexora Collection consists primarily of highly desirable colored vases and features both rare models and rare colors of commercial vases.
Four examples tell the story.
Lot 1 is an Alexandrite Tortues Vase (Turtles Vase) that changes color under different light sources. **
Lot 5 is a rare blue glass Martin Pêcheurs Vase.
Lot 33 is a green opalescent Avallon Vase.
And Lot 35 is an ice blue Pigeons Vase that combines a rare model with an equally rare color.
Of the 68 total lots, all but 7 are vases, and all but a handful of the vases are colored glass. And the remaining 7 lots have some great models including a black glass Biches Inkwell and the blue glass Mesanges Bracelet.
More good news is the reasonable estimates for some great highly marketable pieces, and the online condition reports that Rago represents to be accurate.
It shapes up to be a great looking sale with the opportunity to acquire some seldom seen items, and also to have a chance at some great popular colored vases and other models at reasonable prices.
You can see the entire sale catalog HERE!
And don’t miss the additional R. Lalique items on September 23rd in Rago’s Decorative Arts sale. Here is a link to that listing in the Worldwide Auction section.
** Alexandrite was first discovered in the Ural Mountains in 1830. It was named after the young heir to the Russian throne Alexander II.
Post-Sale Update:
The short version: What A Great Sale!
The rest of the story:
68 lots were offered at the auction, one of which was a small book lot that sold. Of the remaining 67 lots, all of which were R. Lalique items, 65 sold and 2 remained unsold. The overall sale rate for all lots in the auction was over 97% based on the number of lots, and over 99% based on the estimates, the 2 no-sales being relatively low value items.
Against a total estimate range of $253,300 to $362,700, the hammer prices of $375,400 exceeded the high estimate, and the total sale including the buyers premium of $469,250 was well outside the high estimate. The top seller was Lot 1, the Tortues Vase in alexandrite glass that made $30,000 all-in. On the same basis 2nd place at $25,000 went to Lot 7, the red Escargot Vase; in 3rd place was the blue glass Martin-Pêcheurs Vase as Lot 5 at $23,750; and in 4th place was the Lot 3 amber Serpent Vase for $20,000. The average price for the 66 sold lots was $7,110.
It was yet another amazingly successful sale for the works of Rene Lalique at Rago. The high selling lot accounted for only about 6% of the sale total. And the depth of interest revealed itself in the large number of bidders with Rago reporting over 2 dozen buyers from 5 different continents.
End of Post-Sale Update.
Hot on the heels of its highly successful R. Lalique Solana Collection sale in May of this year, RagoArts in Lambertville New Jersey is bringing yet another decades old single owner collection to auction on Friday September 22nd, 2017. The Lexora Collection consists primarily of highly desirable colored vases and features both rare models and rare colors of commercial vases.
Four examples tell the story.
Lot 1 is an Alexandrite Tortues Vase (Turtles Vase) that changes color under different light sources. **
Lot 5 is a rare blue glass Martin Pêcheurs Vase.
Lot 33 is a green opalescent Avallon Vase.
And Lot 35 is an ice blue Pigeons Vase that combines a rare model with an equally rare color.
Of the 68 total lots, all but 7 are vases, and all but a handful of the vases are colored glass. And the remaining 7 lots have some great models including a black glass Biches Inkwell and the blue glass Mesanges Bracelet.
More good news is the reasonable estimates for some great highly marketable pieces, and the online condition reports that Rago represents to be accurate.
It shapes up to be a great looking sale with the opportunity to acquire some seldom seen items, and also to have a chance at some great popular colored vases and other models at reasonable prices.
You can see the entire sale catalog HERE!
And don’t miss the additional R. Lalique items on September 23rd in Rago’s Decorative Arts sale. Here is a link to that listing in the Worldwide Auction section.
** Alexandrite was first discovered in the Ural Mountains in 1830. It was named after the young heir to the Russian throne Alexander II.
